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Old 08-06-2008, 05:56 AM   #1
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Initial Impressions - Holset HX35 content

I figured I'd give a little update, since I have been driving with this big stupid thing on my car for a little while. Mainly just a few thoughts about this project since things certainly are not wrapped up yet; in fact I would say this is pretty much just the tip of the iceberg.

1 - The installation on a 9000 is pretty easy.

edit: This is on my 1995 9000 Aero by the way. People seem to have missed me mentioning several times that the '91 was only used to test fitment. The 1991 will get a TD04-15t.

You want to get a custom elbow right off the turbo to go toward your intercooler setup, right now I have adapted some OEM rubber tube, but that does not seem ideal to me. Also you will need a spacer to space the turbo away from the early T3 exhaust manifold, about 1/2" to 3/4" will do, I used a T3 header flange on mine. You also need to block off the coolant feed and return, since this is an oil cooled turbo.

The early style cooling fans will hit the compressor housing on an HX35 like mine, I am using an A/C adapted to work in place of the normal cooling fan, it is working fine for now, but I would rather use a Spal fan when I can scrap together a few $$$ to get one from Summit Racing.

Lastly, the most "challenging" part was making the oil return tube. I pretty much just hacked up a c900 T3 return tube and a 9000 T25 return tube, a few angle cuts and some welding and I seem to have something solid. I did this last night after my really poorly hacked together one from the original installation split open at a rubber joint I had used to splice the chunks of tube together. Welding it and having only one rubber joint is the best option!

2 - Driving. Driving around town is easy, although now that the exhaust is louder it makes me stay off the throttle as much as possible. In town boost is not easily attained, but for me this is not an issue. With the internal gate on my turbo tightened down I will see a bit of boost by 2,500rpm, and it starts to build right at 3,000. You can tell that the turbo flows far beyond what the stock turbos do, the car seems to make a bit more power without boost. Right now the max amount of boost I have seen is around 15psi at about 4,000rpm. I will not exceed that until I have the wide band setup all squared away.

I do not know how well the internal gate works on an HX35W, I assume it is set high, which is not ideal. I ported the WG hole out as large as possible to still work with the stock flapper gate. I will likely find out how it behaves and probably move on to an external gate. If I do not see much boost creep, and I can find a way to manage the still WGA I could end up sticking with the internal gate for a little bit.

For fueling, the 60# injectors seem to have been pretty easy to get right for idle and low/no boost driving. I think I set the injector constant to 13 and tweaked a few fuel map values on my stage 4 tune after comparing them to a few big turbo files. My fuel consumption has not plummited, although I am sure I will find that it could use a bit of work to get anywhere near the 27mpg from 50/50 driving that I had been seeing before. Anyway, the real fun will start as soon as I can figure out the data logging aspect of this project!

Stay tuned, this should be interesting. Probably lots of work, and enough frustration to make we want to not drive the car on a daily basis...but still fun. I hope
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:32 AM   #2
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Good info. Thanks.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:21 AM   #3
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great job now get a wideband. (also i have a can usb in the mail) would u like to us it
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:30 AM   #4
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Cool, sounds close to my gt3076, does not start really making any boost until about 3k, 5psi from there to about 3800rpm where I climb to 10psi and am at full boost 25-28psi by 4500rpm or so. I have had to lean my 630cc injectors out a few times down low and changed the konst from 11 to 12 and that worked well for me.

I think the Holset base boost is set to about 15psi and you should have no trouble running 25psi and once you get the wide-band on it, you will be able to tweek it and get it right. Once its all set and you have enough fuel, you could easily run 30-35psi I would bet and have seen them on the trucks running 32-40psi all day long. I can't even imagine what it would do at 42psi

Spin in third, fourth and fith I would say.... I am thinking hard about building my cse into a race car, gutting it, putting on a holset and going for broke. If you change the final drive in the geabox and add lsd or spider gear lock, they tend to hold up longer. I am going to try and get the car super light and make a good 600bhp or more. Then you do need larger injectors and larger fuel delivery line and fuel pump.

I will be interested in when you reach peak boost once its up to 25psi or more. I am curioius if it will match or beat my garrett bb gt3076wg. It should have no problem outflowing the gt3076, but if it matches spool-up, there is no reason to get another expensive bb turbo.

Good Work!

John
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Cool, sounds close to my gt3076, does not start really making any boost until about 3k, 5psi from there to about 3800rpm where I climb to 10psi and am at full boost 25-28psi by 4500rpm or so. I have had to lean my 630cc injectors out a few times down low and changed the konst from 11 to 12 and that worked well for me.

...

I will be interested in when you reach peak boost once its up to 25psi or more. I am curioius if it will match or beat my garrett bb gt3076wg. It should have no problem outflowing the gt3076, but if it matches spool-up, there is no reason to get another expensive bb turbo.

Good Work!

John
Thanks John!

Some of your info on the GT3076 makes me get a little excited about this holset. I know that I saw 5psi on the way to work today, and I never revved it near 3500 even; I'd say maybe a tickle over 3000. I will drive it over lunch and see where it hits that 5psi mark.

I have never driven a big turbo car before, so I have no bearing on what to expect for spool. I knew it would be laggy, and I half expected it to be a bitch to drive in low RPMs. I'm happy to say I don't feel that is the case right now, and I know I can still do work with timing to get it even better!


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great job now get a wideband. (also i have a can usb in the mail) would u like to us it
Neato! I'll have to check it out sometime. I should probably buy one as well.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:26 PM   #6
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That sounds awesome.

Two questions:

Are doing the next Amery Airport event?

If so, will Holset equipped 9k been the car you run?

I really want to see that thinkg take off on the runway.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:29 PM   #7
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What Stage4 is it running? Or is it T5suited?
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:53 PM   #8
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Stage 4 would not have the fuel injector konst set up for the 630cc injectors, he is tuning it himself with t5 suite.

John
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaabaTheHut View Post
That sounds awesome.

Two questions:

Are doing the next Amery Airport event?

If so, will Holset equipped 9k been the car you run?

I really want to see that thinkg take off on the runway.
It will be there, hopefully tuned enough to go faster than the last one and not blow anything up.

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Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Stage 4 would not have the fuel injector konst set up for the 630cc injectors, he is tuning it himself with t5 suite.

John
Correct. The tune startes as a JSP Stage 4 that I pruchased at SOC last year from Jak. It has proven to be a good safe tune with great MPG, so I used it at a starting point and scaled the injectors from 630cc and made a few other minor changes as well.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:26 AM   #10
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Also, I drove the car to work on the highway today rather than back roads since I got all the little oil leaks figured out and I'm not longer in constant feal of all 4.5 quarts leaving the car in a split second on the freeway.

Anyway, did some short pulls to see where the spooling began to happen. I can consistently get 2 psi by 2,000 rpm, 6psi by 2500 rpm, and about 10psi by 3,000 rpm now that the wastegate actuator is tightened up a bit.

The first few times I drove it I had the arm extended a bit far, and I think it was beyond its useful length of travel and was allowing gasses to blow by, resulting in a slow spool.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:43 AM   #11
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Sweet.


How does it feel?
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:46 AM   #12
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slow, i'd imagine
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:15 AM   #13
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Spectacular.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:53 PM   #14
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I bet it feels good to have her up and running w/ the holset
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:30 AM   #15
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Fuck the JAW wideband. I did a silly thing and ordered a Innovate LC-1 from genuinesaab.com. Maybe someone can figure out what I did wrong on my second JAW and I'll sell it or something. Ugh.


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I bet it feels good to have her up and running w/ the holset
Oh yes it does!
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:35 AM   #16
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The innovate is the way to go, its expanible and you can get rpm, boost, egt and a/f on the lm3 box and then what is really cool is that now that they have the can bus working, you can live tune the sw on the car and use the innovate system to data log it all and have all the important parameters on one screen. Its awesome!

Then you can go out, tune the idle maps, tune the wot maps and get the tune perfect on the road or dyno and then save the changes you made and flash the ecu one time with t5 suite. This will save you from having to flash the ecu, drive the car, flash the ecu, driver the car etc. You will now be able to make all the changes via laptop with t5 suite in the car connected via can bus and also monitor, record, change all the maps while the ecu is still in the car.

I am pretty excited about this, plus it allows you to monitor tps, fuel trims, o2 sensor or whatever you want live and this wil save tons of time in the fine tuning of a car.

John
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:46 AM   #17
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That all sounds really good. I am pretty much just collecting parts for doing this junk...one at a time I guess.

I got the LC-1 all hooked up and reading A/F. No real way to data log I guess, but I'll do it the old fashioned way, set boost, make sure I'm getting good fuel at that boost, step it up a pound or two, make sure I am getting good fuel again, rinse, lather repeat until the car is too fast for my own good.

So far, the car seems to have good A/F readings at idle and low/no boost levels. I was also able to floor it in 3rd gear up to redline with the turbo set to 5psi, the A/F seemed OK there. I will step it up a bit for the drive home and see what I can see with 8psi or so.

I am sure it will take me some time, I'm planning on keeping it a bit on the conservative side so I don't blow something up right away, but we'll see. I hope its good enough to get me through the driving event this Saturday.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:57 AM   #18
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Also, its worth noting that in order to keep boost from shooting up to 20psi any time I cracked open the throttle, I used a t25 wastegate actuator that I had laying around and lengthened the shaft about 2 inches or so, to match the length of the stock one from the HX35.

The initial amount of base boost I had was 5 psi, but I will step that up a bit now that it seems everything it working OK.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:59 AM   #19
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Yeah man!

I would like a good rival at the airport this weekend!



Also, if you need me to ride along and look at the gauge so you can keep your eyes on the road, let me know.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:16 AM   #20
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Also, if you need me to ride along and look at the gauge so you can keep your eyes on the road, let me know.
I'll be using both you and Jon as my "data loggers" until I can afford one of these:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lma3.php

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