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Performance Modifications for the 9000 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the Saab 9000. This may also include suspension.

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Old 08-25-2008, 12:46 PM   #41
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That's like calling a toyota corolla unreliable if it breaks from driving it off of ski jumps.
I love this analogy.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:48 PM   #42
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Don't worry Vigge, I'm not going to run boost for the sake of running it

That said, its going to be a slow and careful process to get the car up to where I want it.

I'm also not going to push it much past 25psi until I retune for a 3 bar map sensor. Letting the ECU run blind is not something I care to do.
Just an fyi, I was running my car with the canbus, totally awesome way to tune by the way, got out my slight hesitation at part throttle and got my idle perfect, even with ac on at idle with enem cams and 6000' elevation, and then did some wot pulls. The insp mat, fuel map when opened up in canbus shows the fueling live, you can watch it move around the board as you idle and drive the car and find where it is when it goes lean or rich and I did some wot pulls and my set-up did not go to the last highest table in the runs, it did go to the far right and the third table down from the top and once the second table down from the top, so if those are set for you're power level and boost level, running the 2.5 bar is still ok. You would also want that same area in the timing table to be right too.

That being said, I am switching over to the 3 bar map sensor, but just wanted to say you can run the 2.5 bar map sensor and have the fuel and timing still be where you want it, the thing is that fuel and timing table will be the same from about 23-27psi.

What I find is if its set up for 27psi and 12.0./1, then its 11.5/1 at 23psi, nothing wrong with that, the timing stays the same of course.

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Old 08-25-2008, 10:41 PM   #43
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I was just trying to ease his mind that 25psi is not really that much for a turbo of that size, even vigge that runs concervative boost runs up to 27-28psi on his runs...
Dont want to be picky, but my fuel cut is benith 27Psi and I have and do run with ~24Psi max in mid range and with fade to 20-21psi at 7krpm. Both the 286km/h (1800) and the 276km/h(mile) are with this type of boost mapping as well as majority of the street runs. A 1650m run last fall as a result of last minute mapping lead to 26psi and fuel cut at the beginning of 5th gear.

Boost as it often is "understood" as being a indicator of bhp is far too often lifted to too high levels, even though the same GO could be gotten with far less. Often its not a problem to do so, but the longer the runs get the more harm it will when the boost is set too high. From the Holset family it depends on the type how they flow and for instance the H1E's wheel profile deliveres good flow with low boost levels while the HX40super for instance asks for a bit more. For instance this run
http://www.lowbudgetrides.com/Movies...00TMRacing.wmv
is with 1.4bar (~20psi) only and as we can see "there is more than plenty happening".
But as always testing it out is more or less the only way to go, regarless on what the recommendations are. Sometimes they can be correct and sometimes not.
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Old 08-26-2008, 05:32 AM   #44
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20psi actuator back on the turbo.

I can confirm 2 things:

#1 - A t25 actuator is not strong enough to hold back the pressure at the wastegate on a Holset, even tightened way down it started to blow open at 5psi. It gave the feeling that the turbo was really laggy, as the boost would begin to slowly built around 4,000 + rpm, which leads me to...

#2 - What I was seeing with regards to boost building in the high RPMs was IN FACT boost creep. The laggy feeling was due to the T25 actuator not being able to keep the flapper shut. High enough in the RPMs it would eventually spool, but it was not fun to drive.

So, I do not know yet if the boost creep will be helped or resolved from drilling through so the 2nd vane can vent off its gasses when the wastegate opens. I suspect it will help a *bit* but my hopes are not high for that being the final answer.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:37 AM   #45
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Cool, keep us posted, 20-25psi might be all you need or want with the holset turbo.

I am not saying more is always better, just giving my own experiences with my gt3076wg. What I found is there is more power or maybe I should say more upper mid to upper torque with 27-28psi with my gt3076.

I have noticed that the peak power, bhp can still be the same when running a little less boost, say 25psi for my reference, what I lose is the torque under the curve, when I go up to 27psi, the torque under the curve is higher and it holds longer.

It all depends on the application of what the end user wants.

Vigge: I swear I have seen 26-28psi on you're gages on those standing mile runs...

John
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Old 08-26-2008, 11:16 AM   #46
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Vigge: I swear I have seen 26-28psi on you're gages on those standing mile runs...

John
its the "lets hit the fuel cut" run from last fall you cannot get you of your head, even in that that the boost barely spiked to 26Psi... Anyhow here is the max boost values for runs made during past year or so

2007 1850m 272km/h max boost 1.46bar (21.2psi), std hea/T5 cams
2007 1650m 273km/h max boost 1.81bar (26.2psi), fulcut ported head 268 cams
2007 dyno 507bhp/601Nm max boost 1.57bar (22.8bar)
2008 880m 234km/h max boost 1.68bar (24.4psi External WG
2008 1650 272km/h, max boost 1.66bar (24.1psi), housing to ar. 0.64
2008 1800m 286km/h max boost 1.69bar (24.5psi) back to 0.86 housing + w/m
2008 1mile 276km/h max boost 1.67bar (24.2psi) same as above
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:37 PM   #47
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i really hope this thread stops soon because im slowly being pulled away from the td0419T and pushed into a holset. i cant afford too many more broken parts until i get some other stuff taken care of.
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:40 PM   #48
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Took the car to the track today, there was a new Ford GT behind me for several laps.

The ghetto modified wastegate mod is working better than I expected. Boost is holding around 18psi, in the upper end of 3rd and 4th it does creep up to 23 or so, but I expected much worse.

If I can find someone to mill down the vane divider I think I will be golden, but until then I think things are stable enough for me to try V3 of my tune. I little leaner across the board, and more ign. advance in the lower rpm/off boost.

I will also add the BPC back into the exquasion and turn up the boost a tiny bit. The car freaking hauls balls. I'd like to get a baseline dyno run in soon, as I expect to see well over 300whp. I will be fun to see how the power, and most importantly the power CURVE will progross the more I play with the car.

Peak power is not a problem for me right now, but I really want to see if I can make the area under the curve grow quite a bit!
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:57 PM   #49
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Sounds like you are making progress, before long it will start to feel normal to you and you will be upping the boost and power

I just about bought a holset the other day. Do you have the nice v-band turbine side? That looks like the one that would be great to use since you would not have to mess with the bolt up flanges and all that crap.

I am not too woried about boost creep, I have the enem cams and am trying to make as much power up top as possible and I have to keep upping my base boost to hold the boost up top past 5500rpm.

My atp 18psi actuator only held 12psi in real life. I had to add a helper spring with 18psi actuator to get my base boost up to around 15psi and that is about where it is now and seems to work pretty good.

John
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:23 AM   #50
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Do you have the nice v-band turbine side?
If it's internally wastegated, it would still have some kind of flange:



I've never seen an HX35, but from this picture

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Old 09-01-2008, 09:56 AM   #51
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my HX35 has the 5 bolt exhaust housing, and has 5 bolt --> 3" vband adapter on it. vband > *
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:49 AM   #52
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Mine did not come with the vband. I'll try to find photos of it later.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:28 PM   #53
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Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but are you using a manifold with the divided flange?
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:24 PM   #54
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no. he's using a stock 9000 manifold with regular t3 flange.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:26 PM   #55
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I see..all the HX35/HX40's I've seen have only had the T4 divided flange. Not that a T3 would work on a stock NG900 mani anyway..
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:28 PM   #56
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divided T3 flange....
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:29 PM   #57
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Oh. Whoops.
Either way..still have to go custom for me. Thanks, though.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:30 PM   #58
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yup. i have to go custom to throw one on my NG900 too.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:32 PM   #59
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Ever consider a T25/xx adapter? Or would that make some fitting issues..?
I won't actually buy a holset until I figure out what I'm gonna do, so I'm not sure how much space there is.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:35 PM   #60
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i'm told it's hard to make a t25 --> t3 adapter, because the bolts line up very close.
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