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Old 08-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #1
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350-400HP Engine rebuild

2001 95 2.3t 182k Miles

so my engine ate a valve and it destroyed the head and a piston.

i got a running donor car for 400$ and am halfway through swapping the engine.

i have every record of service on my vehicle and visually the mechanicals are great so I have considerable faith that rebuilding the engine like new will grant me many years of joy.

over the next 6mo or so as cash trickles in i plan on getting the block completely cleaned, checked, bored out, etc the whole 9 yards so its like new. As I'm using all the parts/engine accessories from my donor along with its engine I will be getting all of my own parts blasted/cleaned and painted.

I would like to be able to tune to at minimum 350HP and basically need a real answer as to what I "really" need to accomplish that. Forged pistons I got that - are the existing rods and crank ok as long as they check out? i plan on putting in new bearings and whatever else that might fail

do i need an aero head or will the same head work?
when are 800$ cam shafts really necessary?
my existing clutch has about 5k miles on it and was a quality one but not performance.. i had it replaced free under warranty by an import shop because the kid i bought it from burned out his new clutch in less than 7k miles. id have to call and double check to see exactly what they put in but he said they put a better one in and I want to say he said the one for the aero but I cant remember.
Regardless - 5k miles on a clutch with the flywheel having been resurfaced at the same time - good enough to last awhile at 350HP? if not AERO? and not racing.. I just want the power at my foot when i want it.

My donor car is a 1999 95 2.3t and it has red injectors - my 2001 has brown (though they look like an orangey brown :-\ ) are either of these sets suitable or both only good to 260-280hp?

I suppose if too many performance internals are needed ill just do the forged pistons for durability the and rest stock parts and tune as high as safely possible.

I was planning on spending no more than 1250$ in parts rebuilding the engine block/head and just want the bare minimum safe requirements for 350hp

I have also already upgraded to the TD04 since my GT17 went kaput.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:47 PM   #2
 
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I'm assuming you mean WHP when you say 350-400.

Forged pistons with existing rods are fine. Crank is fine as is, but getting it knife-edged and balanced with the new pistons/rods can't hurt.

For fueling, you're going to need something that pushes at least 250 lph consistently. Good choices are the Bosch "044" or the Aeromotive 340.

Look at Siemens Deka 630cc injectors.

Clutch depends on how you drive. If you're planning on going to the strip, then look at some of the Centerforce clutches. If you tend to be easy on clutches, then a Spec 3+ might work for you. (Some folks have had issues tho....)
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapper View Post
2001 95 2.3t 182k Miles

so my engine ate a valve and it destroyed the head and a piston.

i got a running donor car for 400$ and am halfway through swapping the engine.

i have every record of service on my vehicle and visually the mechanicals are great so I have considerable faith that rebuilding the engine like new will grant me many years of joy.

over the next 6mo or so as cash trickles in i plan on getting the block completely cleaned, checked, bored out, etc the whole 9 yards so its like new. As I'm using all the parts/engine accessories from my donor along with its engine I will be getting all of my own parts blasted/cleaned and painted.

I would like to be able to tune to at minimum 350HP and basically need a real answer as to what I "really" need to accomplish that. Forged pistons I got that - are the existing rods and crank ok as long as they check out? i plan on putting in new bearings and whatever else that might fail

do i need an aero head or will the same head work?
when are 800$ cam shafts really necessary?
my existing clutch has about 5k miles on it and was a quality one but not performance.. i had it replaced free under warranty by an import shop because the kid i bought it from burned out his new clutch in less than 7k miles. id have to call and double check to see exactly what they put in but he said they put a better one in and I want to say he said the one for the aero but I cant remember.
Regardless - 5k miles on a clutch with the flywheel having been resurfaced at the same time - good enough to last awhile at 350HP? if not AERO? and not racing.. I just want the power at my foot when i want it.

My donor car is a 1999 95 2.3t and it has red injectors - my 2001 has brown (though they look like an orangey brown :-\ ) are either of these sets suitable or both only good to 260-280hp?

I suppose if too many performance internals are needed ill just do the forged pistons for durability the and rest stock parts and tune as high as safely possible.

I was planning on spending no more than 1250$ in parts rebuilding the engine block/head and just want the bare minimum safe requirements for 350hp

I have also already upgraded to the TD04 since my GT17 went kaput.
AHA! More proof of dropped valves on a T7 car!
As far as price, spending only $1250 on a rebuild seems a bit... Cheap. To have the block decked, alignhoned, cylinders overbored, connecting rods checked and "reconditioned", crankshaft straightness checked and corrected if need be, a piston set, having everything weight matched and balanced, see where I am going...? Even minor head work, resurface, pressure check, valve job and new valve stem seals will run you around $200 in my experience. It will cost to do this correctly, just for machine work not even including parts. I say do it correctly the first time and have peace of mind as well as satisfaction that it was done correctly!

As far as camshafts, if you are looking into that horsepower range I think we will mostly agree with T5 cams being able to suffice. (I have some if you wanna buy ). Good luck on the build!!
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93viggen View Post
AHA! More proof of dropped valves on a T7 car!
As far as price, spending only $1250 on a rebuild seems a bit... Cheap. To have the block decked, alignhoned, cylinders overbored, connecting rods checked and "reconditioned", crankshaft straightness checked and corrected if need be, a piston set, having everything weight matched and balanced, see where I am going...? Even minor head work, resurface, pressure check, valve job and new valve stem seals will run you around $200 in my experience. It will cost to do this correctly, just for machine work not even including parts. I say do it correctly the first time and have peace of mind as well as satisfaction that it was done correctly!

As far as camshafts, if you are looking into that horsepower range I think we will mostly agree with T5 cams being able to suffice. (I have some if you wanna buy ). Good luck on the build!!

Godness gracious! Someone actually talks sense when providing advice to someone needed lower end work...


You mean he can't just stick a valve back in, get a new piston
( you know mr Saunders, as you suggest, just fix what needs fixin! Wtf....)

You mean he should actually check everything?

Even the crank? You don't say!?????


I almost shit myself when I read your post. The most practical, realistic perspective of what goes into a motor rebuild! Sure the guy building the motor doesn't want to hear but it's what it takes!

You should get over to the classic forum and shed some light on the blockes overe there!

Mr Saunders take note!!! You don't just slap in a motor, in any car!


You take care, check even the parts that don't need checking, for check sake.

Those that suggest slap in an go; need a slap...and should not be providing advice that could potentially harm a motorist.

Last edited by B202nut; 08-09-2013 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:41 AM   #5
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Here's a reference for you for what I did... not for 350-400 WHP, but still for a stage 5 build

Harvey's work (mechanic):

https://www.saablink.net/forum/perfor...-9-5/70570.htm

Sean's work (machinist):

Way Cool SAAB MAchine Work Photos by phoenixpnr | Photobucket
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i don't think a c900 has sold for 28k since the day one left the dealership new.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:40 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B202nut View Post
Godness gracious! Someone actually talks sense when providing advice to someone needed lower end work...


You mean he can't just stick a valve back in, get a new piston
( you know mr Saunders, as you suggest, just fix what needs fixin! Wtf....)

You mean he should actually check everything?

Even the crank? You don't say!?????


I almost shit myself when I read your post. The most practical, realistic perspective of what goes into a motor rebuild! Sure the guy building the motor doesn't want to hear but it's what it takes!

You should get over to the classic forum and shed some light on the blockes overe there!

Mr Saunders take note!!! You don't just slap in a motor, in any car!


You take care, check even the parts that don't need checking, for check sake.

Those that suggest slap in an go; need a slap...and should not be providing advice that could potentially harm a motorist.
You generally don't know what you're talking about on a good day, so I can only guess this latest spew was due to a few too many Manhattans on the cabana.

If the head is toast, then it's a given that getting a new one is on the OP's must-have list. It's a little tough for the car to run without one, wouldn't you say? He wants "the bare minimum safe requirements for 350 hp" not a racing build, but perhaps that eluded you in the fog.

I completely agree with 93viggen that a $1,250 budget is extremely optimistic but the OP would have discovered that pretty soon. Getting a block overbored .020 over and decked is about $350-500. (I paid $400 for mine.) Crank work is extra, but not absolutely critical. The OP asked if the B235 rods could get him to his goal, which is yes.

If you had read what the OP said about doing the rest of the rebuild over time and putting in new wear items -- and if you actually had done this before -- you'd know that he's looking at another $350-400 in parts. I added the items he specifically asked about -- fueling and injectors -- offering the ones I know he would need for his goal.

Your assumption that I suggested "just slap a motor in" is in keeping with your usually poor advice about anything other than your own limited range of Saab knowledge -- and if I might digress for moment...what Saab do you have in your driveway that's anywhere near 350 hp? Hmm? Anything? A die-cast model, perhaps, and a long steep hill?

Anything? No?

Okay.

In nearly every post, you tend to shit on people who do power mods, mainly because you've been hidebound by the inherent limitations of your own preferred choice of cars. When you have a Saab capable of 350-400 hp, then offer some advice derived from experience.

Until then....

Suck on one of these:


Last edited by mike saunders; 08-09-2013 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You generally don't know what you're talking about on a good day, so I can only guess this latest spew was due to a few too many Manhattans on the cabana.

If the head is toast, then it's a given that getting a new one is on the OP's must-have list. It's a little tough for the car to run without one, wouldn't you say? He wants "the bare minimum safe requirements for 350 hp" not a racing build, but perhaps that eluded you in the fog.

I completely agree with 93viggen that a $1,250 budget is extremely optimistic but the OP would have discovered that pretty soon. Getting a block overbored .020 over and decked is about $350-500. (I paid $400 for mine.) Crank work is extra, but not absolutely critical. The OP asked if the B235 rods could get him to his goal, which is yes.

If you had read what the OP said about doing the rest of the rebuild over time and putting in new wear items -- and if you actually had done this before -- you'd know that he's looking at another $350-400 in parts. I added the items he specifically asked about -- fueling and injectors -- offering the ones I know he would need for his goal.

Your assumption that I suggested "just slap a motor in" is in keeping with your usually poor advice about anything other than your own limited range of Saab knowledge -- and if I might digress for moment...what Saab do you have in your driveway that's anywhere near 350 hp? Hmm? Anything? A die-cast model, perhaps, and a long steep hill?

Anything? No?

Okay.

In nearly every post, you tend to shit on people who do power mods, mainly because you've been hidebound by the inherent limitations of your own preferred choice of cars. When you have a Saab capable of 350-400 hp, then offer some advice derived from experience.

Until then....

Suck on one of these:

Dayum.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...lWT1qfkt17.gif
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i don't think a c900 has sold for 28k since the day one left the dealership new.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You generally don't know what you're talking about on a good day, so I can only guess this latest spew was due to a few too many Manhattans on the cabana.

If the head is toast, then it's a given that getting a new one is on the OP's must-have list. It's a little tough for the car to run without one, wouldn't you say? He wants "the bare minimum safe requirements for 350 hp" not a racing build, but perhaps that eluded you in the fog.

I completely agree with 93viggen that a $1,250 budget is extremely optimistic but the OP would have discovered that pretty soon. Getting a block overbored .020 over and decked is about $350-500. (I paid $400 for mine.) Crank work is extra, but not absolutely critical. The OP asked if the B235 rods could get him to his goal, which is yes.

If you had read what the OP said about doing the rest of the rebuild over time and putting in new wear items -- and if you actually had done this before -- you'd know that he's looking at another $350-400 in parts. I added the items he specifically asked about -- fueling and injectors -- offering the ones I know he would need for his goal.

Your assumption that I suggested "just slap a motor in" is in keeping with your usually poor advice about anything other than your own limited range of Saab knowledge -- and if I might digress for moment...what Saab do you have in your driveway that's anywhere near 350 hp? Hmm? Anything? A die-cast model, perhaps, and a long steep hill?

Anything? No?

Okay.

In nearly every post, you tend to shit on people who do power mods, mainly because you've been hidebound by the inherent limitations of your own preferred choice of cars. When you have a Saab capable of 350-400 hp, then offer some advice derived from experience.

Until then....

Suck on one of these:

Seems you need the werthers as you appear very bitter..

But you do suck so I imagine you keep a stash close by...

Cheers

If I want a 400 up car I will buy one designed for that type of power.

Simple. I wave my willy in the bedroom.

No need having my hands down my pants yanking my wangler from stop sign to stop sign.

Did that 20 years ago before I took responsibility for other people's lives.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:47 AM   #9
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Your the guy who thinks a turbo is better suited for a 5 speed motor.

You have a good deal of shit that spews between your lips as well.

For a guy that gives a shit load of advice, I would love to see an example of your craftsmanship.

My little 900 is where I get my kicks, experiment ideas and wrench to my hearts content. Just pop over to the classic forum and check my humble work.

I kinda put my money where my mouth is.

what's in your driveway killa???

Last edited by B202nut; 08-09-2013 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B202nut View Post
Seems you need the werthers as you appear very bitter..

But you do suck so I imagine you keep a stash close by...

Cheers

If I want a 400 up car I will buy one designed for that type of power.

Simple. I wave my willy in the bedroom.

No need having my hands down my pants yanking my wangler from stop sign to stop sign.

Did that 20 years ago before I took responsibility for other people's lives.

Don't knock the guys that are doing it with a Saab (and some quite easily, BTW). The T5 is designed to handle it, and does so with many 400 to 500hp builds from several members.

and BTW, it seems you were the one who started with the smart-mouth comment about Mike. In the future, say what you want but hold your tongue, if you would, from personalizing something that is unnecessary.

And why the qualifier about taking responsibility for other people's lives? If you have to qualify, well... you know...

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i don't think a c900 has sold for 28k since the day one left the dealership new.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:09 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by B202nut
My little 900 is where I get my kicks, experiment ideas and wrench to my hearts content. Just pop over to the classic forum and check my humble work.

I kinda put my money where my mouth is.

what's in your driveway killa???


Ahhh, Funny Friday has begun!

Look, Jeeves...lay off the sauce before you post. You're becoming nearly incomprehensible, like some old guy at the back end of the bar nattering about the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B202nut
If I want a 400 up car I will buy one designed for that type of power.

Simple. I wave my willy in the bedroom.

No need having my hands down my pants yanking my wangler from stop sign to stop sign.

Did that 20 years ago before I took responsibility for other people's lives.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of modded Saabs with 350+ HP taking kids to school, fetching groceries, and hauling supplies from Home Depot. Available power doesn't mean it's always applied. That's a simplistic and wrong line of thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B202nut
Your the guy who thinks a turbo is better suited for a 5 speed motor.
Sigh.

Last edited by mike saunders; 08-09-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:51 PM   #12
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400HP you say?
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #13
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400HP you say?
especially for transmissions. And really anything drivetrain related. As long as he goes into the project with that in mind!

Why so much arguing. Lol. I voiced my opinion, as well as Mr. Saunders. He just gave a more financial viable option. I just stated how I would do it, take a bit more time to save more and do it as correctly as possible. It depends on too many things to accuse someone of doing it wrong. Aren't we supposed to just all love Saabs here o.O?
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #14
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especially for transmissions. And really anything drivetrain related. As long as he goes into the project with that in mind!

Why so much arguing. Lol. I voiced my opinion, as well as Mr. Saunders. He just gave a more financial viable option. I just stated how I would do it, take a bit more time to save more and do it as correctly as possible. It depends on too many things to accuse someone of doing it wrong. Aren't we supposed to just all love Saabs here o.O?


And the funniest thing is.. I am the mad Hatter! And the Invisible Pookha!
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #15
 
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And the funniest thing is.. I am the mad Hatter! And the Invisible Pookha!


That's awesome...
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:36 AM   #16
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What was the question?
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:57 AM   #17
 
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What was the question?
There's a lot of gorilla poop above; here's the TL;DR version:

OP's head shit the bed and dropped a valve, piston's toast. Wants the bare minimum required for an inexpensive rebuild with the goal of 350-400 hp. Also asked about injectors and fueling.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You generally don't know what you're talking about on a good day, so I can only guess this latest spew was due to a few too many Manhattans on the cabana.

If the head is toast, then it's a given that getting a new one is on the OP's must-have list. It's a little tough for the car to run without one, wouldn't you say? He wants "the bare minimum safe requirements for 350 hp" not a racing build, but perhaps that eluded you in the fog.

I completely agree with 93viggen that a $1,250 budget is extremely optimistic but the OP would have discovered that pretty soon. Getting a block overbored .020 over and decked is about $350-500. (I paid $400 for mine.) Crank work is extra, but not absolutely critical. The OP asked if the B235 rods could get him to his goal, which is yes.

If you had read what the OP said about doing the rest of the rebuild over time and putting in new wear items -- and if you actually had done this before -- you'd know that he's looking at another $350-400 in parts. I added the items he specifically asked about -- fueling and injectors -- offering the ones I know he would need for his goal.

Your assumption that I suggested "just slap a motor in" is in keeping with your usually poor advice about anything other than your own limited range of Saab knowledge -- and if I might digress for moment...what Saab do you have in your driveway that's anywhere near 350 hp? Hmm? Anything? A die-cast model, perhaps, and a long steep hill?

Anything? No?

Okay.

In nearly every post, you tend to shit on people who do power mods, mainly because you've been hidebound by the inherent limitations of your own preferred choice of cars. When you have a Saab capable of 350-400 hp, then offer some advice derived from experience.

Until then....

Suck on one of these:
THAT!... was awesome!!!
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:57 AM   #19
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There are hundreds, if not thousands, of modded Saabs with 350+ HP taking kids to school, fetching groceries, and hauling supplies from Home Depot. Available power doesn't mean it's always applied. That's a simplistic and wrong line of thinking.



.
Best line in the whole thread!
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:53 PM   #20
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350-400whp is very possible, Just make sure you examine the whole picture. There are many ways to hit a number on the gound, some cars do it with a really great drive-ability, others do it only when really pissed off at really high RPMS. i always tell people that these builds are all about plumbing, and making the simple choices right. making the wrong ones will result in a car that runs like poop
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