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Old 07-03-2012, 07:00 PM   #1
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b234r/b235r hybrid motor build

I think I'm past due for another motor swap thread.
this one is going into my '00 9-5 aero. my current motor has had a slight knock for the past couple of months, and at 182k miles I think it's safe to say it's time for another.

I'll be using a b234 block and rotating assembly, b234 head gasket, b235 top end. and to make things interesting, I think I'm going to go ahead and put a tdo4hl-19t on it before I drop it in.

as of right now, I've just placed an $180 order for new main bearings, new rod bearings, thrust washers, intake and exhaust manifold gasket. I already have a spare head gasket and valve cover gasket waiting for use.

I'll update this thread with pics as parts show up and I get rolling on things.

stay tuned!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:54 AM   #2
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Pretty straightforward really, you need to use the 235 timing cover and make sure you use the OBDII version of the 234 unless you are dropping the balance shafts, since the balance chain sprokets differ from OBDI to OBDII and I am pretty sure the sprokets are unavailable anywhere
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:17 AM   #3
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Hm, I was unaware about the balance shaft sprockets. Well if need be, I have a b204 that I can grab them from, or actually I should be able to pull them from the 235 and recycle them.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:23 AM   #4
 
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Balance shafts are for nuns and Justin Bieber fans.

Delete them.

The ladies dig the extra vibration in the seat.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #5
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I'd prefer to keep the balance shafts. and as far as the 19t goes that seems like a little more of an investment than I want to make. I might just get a fresh 15t
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:37 AM   #6
 
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Enjoy your copy of 'Boyfriend," Sister Margaret.

A freshened 15T with a 6cm2 should still be plenty feisty for a daily driven Aero. Good call...
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
Balance shafts are for nuns and Justin Bieber fans.

Delete them.

The ladies dig the extra vibration in the seat.
My 235 is BS-less.
I hardly notice it, really.
recommended to everyone.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #8
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I've built motors both ways. I had the shafts deleted in the 204r in my old 900, and then replaced that motor with one thaqt still had the shafts connected. I like the way the motors feel with the balance shafts hooked up. the power just feels much smoother. at least in my opinion.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:10 PM   #9
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I've built motors both ways. I had the shafts deleted in the 204r in my old 900, and then replaced that motor with one thaqt still had the shafts connected. I like the way the motors feel with the balance shafts hooked up. the power just feels much smoother. at least in my opinion.
I agree its actually a pretty nice set up, seems a sin to de-content the engine in any way, runs way sweet with them in place....
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #10
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How much HP/performance do you really gain by deleting them?
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:05 PM   #11
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My understanding it's comparable to having a lightened flywheel.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:26 PM   #12
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My understanding it's comparable to having a lightened flywheel.
I wouldn't even attribute it to that. I don't see much of any advantage.

when you build a motor it is best to have all of the rotating components balanced, as to reduce friction. so you balance pistons and rods and your crank. the balance shafts were designed to counteract the motion of the pistons to allow the engine to run more smoothly.why would you want to upset that?

I know people say"it makes a big difference" but has anyone ever proved it on a dyno?
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:12 PM   #13
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I had a no balance shaft setup in my 900 (2.3/15t-6cm) for about 30k and it vibrated like crazy. Not bad, but when I built another motor w/JEs the balance shafts stayed in. Its much smoother, makes just as much power.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
Balance shafts are for nuns and Justin Bieber fans.

Delete them.

The ladies dig the extra vibration in the seat.
Although this comment made me laugh, a lot.

i recommend leaving the shafts in and active. there really is no power difference, and the cost to replace all the serviceable parts is small. Seams like a no brainer to me.

I wonder if how the lower end is balanced makes a difference. Has anybody ever weighed in a lower end to check balance? ive seen as much as a 10 gram difference in piston/rod assembly all in the same motor thats huge!
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:49 PM   #15
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It shouldn't matter which year b234 block you use. I don't see why you couldn't use a 94' balance shaft assembly. The balance chains, tensioner and guides are the same 94' on up. The sprockets did change, but as long as you keep a matching set I don't think it would matter.

Either way, I just put a 97' b234 in my 9-5 about a month ago. After 2k miles I can say the setup runs super smooth. Just finished putting a 19t in this morning too! Now I just need injectors and a tune. It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers it makes once dialed in.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:53 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by turbojohnny View Post
I wouldn't even attribute it to that. I don't see much of any advantage.

when you build a motor it is best to have all of the rotating components balanced, as to reduce friction. so you balance pistons and rods and your crank. the balance shafts were designed to counteract the motion of the pistons to allow the engine to run more smoothly.why would you want to upset that?

I know people say"it makes a big difference" but has anyone ever proved it on a dyno?
The rotating components that you want balanced are the piston/rod assembles, and the crank counterbalancing lobes. The balance shafts are purely for reducing NVH, and they definitely work. There's definitely a positive upside to having a quieter ride, especially at idle, and the power delivery is also probably smoother with less vibration, just as you say.

But....and this is a huge but, like a combined mutant Coco + pregnant Jessica Simpson but(t), balance shafts = six more things to go wrong. Two shafts, two sprockets with bearings, one drive gear sprocket and one chain.

The frictional losses fron continuously turning two 8-lb chunks of metal at double your engine RPM probably only add up to 5 or 10 HP.

EDIT: Then again....I balanced my piston/rods to within 2 grams...

Last edited by mike saunders; 07-05-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:40 PM   #17
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I wasn't planning on it, but I think I'm going to pull the pistons and rods from this motor and balance them. Just for shits and giggles. And for the hopes of engine longevity
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:26 AM   #18
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Although this comment made me laugh, a lot.

i recommend leaving the shafts in and active. there really is no power difference, and the cost to replace all the serviceable parts is small. Seams like a no brainer to me.

I wonder if how the lower end is balanced makes a difference. Has anybody ever weighed in a lower end to check balance? ive seen as much as a 10 gram difference in piston/rod assembly all in the same motor thats huge!
Had my 234 balanced, the shop said they were very close and only took a short amount of time to balance them ( means not so much $ and accidentally got the pieces into race spec...

The engine is so smooth I am tempted to take the rev limiter to 8K ( but wont) you don;t even realise where the redline is when you are on it.
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It shouldn't matter which year b234 block you use. I don't see why you couldn't use a 94' balance shaft assembly. The balance chains, tensioner and guides are the same 94' on up. The sprockets did change, but as long as you keep a matching set I don't think it would matter.

Either way, I just put a 97' b234 in my 9-5 about a month ago. After 2k miles I can say the setup runs super smooth. Just finished putting a 19t in this morning too! Now I just need injectors and a tune. It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers it makes once dialed in.
I'd like to know I am at 290 WHP 310Wtq with a Big T28 and am contemplating a GT30XX

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I wasn't planning on it, but I think I'm going to pull the pistons and rods from this motor and balance them. Just for shits and giggles. And for the hopes of engine longevity
You need to do it on the entire rotating assembly but anything is good I would imagine
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:18 AM   #19
 
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Removing the balance shafts has zero effect on the rotating assembly. The shafts only affect the vibration of the engine transmitted through the frame. Bringing the revs up would actually tend to smooth out any vibrations caused by removal of the shafts.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:29 AM   #20
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So I took a leap of faith today and bought this...

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=180923315580

I also ordered a 3.5 bar fpr from Nick.

I guess we'll see what happens.
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