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Old 09-20-2010, 05:24 PM   #1
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what are my forged piston options?

Genuine saab has JE, and maptun has vossner
does anyone offer wiseco, or mahle?

what are my options?
I tried searching the manufacturers, but most of their sites suck.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:15 PM   #2
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Je

JE is in US and Nick T. is an official distributor, while Wossner is in Germany, so if you ever need a spare set of rings or anything, Nick will be by your side of the Ocean
just my 0.02 $
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:04 AM   #3
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You've got it, JE or Wossner are the main options. Maybe there are others, but does it really matter. Odds are you're not going to make power that's going to stress the limits of what either piston can do.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:11 AM   #4
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OE pistons are Mahle...
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jssaab View Post
OE pistons are Mahle...
..and they don't make a forged replacement!?
boooo

JE's it will be...

Just have to pay for paint... then motor.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:27 PM   #6
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I recall reading that fewer engines built with JE pistons had oil consumption issues as well, but oil consumption could be a number of issues down to the way the rings are set up.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
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I recall reading that fewer engines built with JE pistons had oil consumption issues as well, but oil consumption could be a number of issues down to the way the rings are set up.
Forged performance pistons open you up to a world of issues that OEM's consider unacceptable. One of the reasons I stick doggedly to the stock hyper-eutectic pistons. Nice tight fit, even when cold.

That and it's my belief that while the motor may be built to handle in excess of 300 hp, not much of the rest of the drivetrain can handle it. That's just my opinion though.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:32 AM   #8
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oil consumption are the least of my worries. I think the biggest reason for the oil use is because most don't pull the motor and machine for the new pistons.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do, but I'm leaning towards a simple fix.

FWIW, JZW sells vossner's as well! and his prices are similar to nick's JE price.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #9
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Forged performance pistons open you up to a world of issues that OEM's consider unacceptable. One of the reasons I stick doggedly to the stock hyper-eutectic pistons. Nice tight fit, even when cold.

That and it's my belief that while the motor may be built to handle in excess of 300 hp, not much of the rest of the drivetrain can handle it. That's just my opinion though.
NO!
I have Wossners and there is NO issue with them, if the rings are well chosen and set!
Forget about what garage experts say
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:56 AM   #10
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NO!
I have Wossners and there is NO issue with them, if the rings are well chosen and set!
Forget about what garage experts say
A sample size of one does not data make. Forged aluminum pistons have poorer thermal expansion properties than the hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons. This is simply a fact of chemistry. The tolerances are going to be looser when cold, they have to be. They're going to be noisier on a cold start and you're going to have to be more gentle with the engine until it up to temperature.

That said, I never said there was anything specifically wrong with using forged pistons. As long as you mind the side effects of their inherent thermal expansion properties, they can operate perfectly trouble free for years.

Having talked to g96nt at length about turbos in the past, I'm pretty sure he knows this already.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:03 AM   #11
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wut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven18940 View Post
A sample size of one does not data make. Forged aluminum pistons have poorer thermal expansion properties than the hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons. This is simply a fact of chemistry. The tolerances are going to be looser when cold, they have to be. They're going to be noisier on a cold start and you're going to have to be more gentle with the engine until it up to temperature.

That said, I never said there was anything specifically wrong with using forged pistons. As long as you mind the side effects of their inherent thermal expansion properties, they can operate perfectly trouble free for years.

Having talked to g96nt at length about turbos in the past, I'm pretty sure he knows this already.
I understand it quite the other way: the forged aluminum pistons having less thermal expansion, they keep the dimension no matter what are the work conditions of the engine. So...
then again, it`s just a simple matter of understanding physics
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:41 AM   #12
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I understand it quite the other way: the forged aluminum pistons having less thermal expansion, they keep the dimension no matter what are the work conditions of the engine. So...
then again, it`s just a simple matter of understanding physics
your wrong, sorry.



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Old 09-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #13
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your wrong, sorry.
right.
piston "slap" is from the pistons contracting while cold., and having a bigger wall clearance. once they warm up, they snug-up, and there's less noise.

I'm okay with that, really. I don't often race the car, but I'd like to know that I'm not on the ragged edge all the time with my car tuned to 15psi.
A little noise for the first 4 minutes of start-up is perfectly fine to me.

There are some piston manufacturers that use different alloys for pistons, and add silica(I think?) to aid in this, but given my two choices, and my ultimate goals... It's just going to come down to which I can get first.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:47 PM   #14
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NO!
I have Wossners and there is NO issue with them, if the rings are well chosen and set!
Forget about what garage experts say
I dont get any coldr weather clack with my Wossners. Not that cold clack is a bad thing when starting up
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:06 PM   #15
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right.
piston "slap" is from the pistons contracting while cold., and having a bigger wall clearance. once they warm up, they snug-up, and there's less noise.

I'm okay with that, really. I don't often race the car, but I'd like to know that I'm not on the ragged edge all the time with my car tuned to 15psi.
A little noise for the first 4 minutes of start-up is perfectly fine to me.

There are some piston manufacturers that use different alloys for pistons, and add silica(I think?) to aid in this, but given my two choices, and my ultimate goals... It's just going to come down to which I can get first.
So are you going for big power down the road? Or are you just looking to make sure you don't have any melted pistons at your current level?
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadenais View Post
I dont get any coldr weather clack with my Wossners. Not that cold clack is a bad thing when starting up
Me either never did or oil consumption...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven18940 View Post
A sample size of one does not data make. Forged aluminum pistons have poorer thermal expansion properties than the hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons. This is simply a fact of chemistry. The tolerances are going to be looser when cold, they have to be. They're going to be noisier on a cold start and you're going to have to be more gentle with the engine until it up to temperature.

That said, I never said there was anything specifically wrong with using forged pistons. As long as you mind the side effects of their inherent thermal expansion properties, they can operate perfectly trouble free for years.

Having talked to g96nt at length about turbos in the past, I'm pretty sure he knows this already.
Never heard it the other way eihter that EVERYONE with forged gets slap

Quote:
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right.
piston "slap" is from the pistons contracting while cold., and having a bigger wall clearance. once they warm up, they snug-up, and there's less noise.

I'm okay with that, really. I don't often race the car, but I'd like to know that I'm not on the ragged edge all the time with my car tuned to 15psi.
A little noise for the first 4 minutes of start-up is perfectly fine to me.

There are some piston manufacturers that use different alloys for pistons, and add silica(I think?) to aid in this, but given my two choices, and my ultimate goals... It's just going to come down to which I can get first.
As race engine builders are apt to say, loose is bettter than tight ( but does not apply to women in several demensions)
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:34 AM   #17
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...loose is bettter than tight ( but does not apply to women in several demensions)
These, my friend, are the words of a wise man
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #18
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So are you going for big power down the road? Or are you just looking to make sure you don't have any melted pistons at your current level?
not biiiiiig power, but I have this ol' turbo and manifold to get on there, and I'd rather over-build than under.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:13 AM   #19
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I have asked Ross performance about custom made pistons price is about 770$/set.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:35 AM   #20
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How much is this build going to cost ? Its amazing the aftermarket parts are still so expensive in this economy...You can buy an almost new Saab 9-5 engine for 1.5K, Build a TD04-19t turbo for another few hundred, some injectors, etc for under 3K and boost the crap out of it and if it blows (which it probably won't) and replace it with another one...I would be interested to see how long a 400HP tune would last with stock internals...?
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