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Old 07-28-2010, 10:51 AM  
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Swap a B235 Into a 9-3SS

I posted this in the 9-5 forum because I drive a 9-5 and I know you guys have a lot of knowledge of the last of the B engines.

I have always wished that this engine had gone into the 9-3ss. It was much more reliable and can really take a beating. The saab ecotec has pretty questionable reliability. The appeal of a B235 swap specifically (vs a B234) is that very low mileage engines from late model 9-5s are widely available in junkyards across the country (US). The idea being to build it with off the shelf parts so to speak.

From what I know the 9-3SS (manual) transmission is very similar to the 9-5 transmission, and it seems like it would be possible to modify the bellhousing so that it would fit on a B engine.

Of course all of the engine mounts would have to be custom fabricated. An ECU and wiring would probably have to be taken from a T5 car.

You guys think this swap would be possible, or is it completely crazy.

I attach the picture below only to remind everyone that anything can be done! The swap i'm talking about would be transverse not longitudinal.


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Old 07-28-2010, 12:23 PM  
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take the ecu wiring from a t7 car if you are transferring a t7 engine on it. well depends on the ecu you want to use, but be prepared to loose the ac, speedo and few other things in process.

i'd really like to see this one done, since in the future the price of the 9-3ss is going to come down and well, we need some continuation after the b2xx's
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:30 PM  
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anything is possible. how much money and time do you want to put in it? because it wont be cheap, and it wont be easy.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:38 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lekonna View Post
take the ecu wiring from a t7 car if you are transferring a t7 engine on it. well depends on the ecu you want to use, but be prepared to loose the ac, speedo and few other things in process.

i'd really like to see this one done, since in the future the price of the 9-3ss is going to come down and well, we need some continuation after the b2xx's
T7 has an insane amount of wiring with 2 wire bundles going through the firewall. I just finished removing all of the wiring from an 88 900T and that was miserable enough. Plus the stupid key immobilizer, SID, and whatnot would have to be migrated over. I would think you could leave enough factory wiring to keep the turn signals and stereo working, and then just transplant an LCD screen into the dash running the T5suite dashboard application.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:58 PM  
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The 9-3ss is crazy complicated electrically. There are a lot of control modules and 2 fuse boxes that must be programmed and vin coded for the car to run. You need the TIS program to do any of that. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but I think you will need to literally rewire the entire car...as in all systems...every one. That 88 900t is an electrical "piece of cake" in comparison
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:14 PM  
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You'd probably be more interested in looking at the 9-3SSR that Speedparts built... Sounds exactly like what you're looking at doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncrY18dr4G8

http://www.93ssr.com/



So yes, it's definitely possible since it's already been done before, but it's going to cost you $$$ and time.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:56 PM  
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god i love that car! but what gets me is that the Ecotec motor is actually pretty damn stout. especially seeing the aftermarket support for it. you could build one hell of a B207 motor.... so why hasnt anyone done it yet?
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:00 PM  
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god i love that car! but what gets me is that the Ecotec motor is actually pretty damn stout. especially seeing the aftermarket support for it. you could build one hell of a B207 motor.... so why hasnt anyone done it yet?
It's because first someone needs to fully crack T8. Not only that, but the transmission is torque limited in the first two gears because of the TCM which would also have to be reprogrammed. It kills me because my car has the exact same engine as the Cobalt SS and there is a guy that lives down the street from me that's pushing almost 400hp on the thing, while as of right now the most I can get would be around 300. It's a good thing I have another car to have fun in or I would have gone crazy by now.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:48 AM  
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A swap like the OP is suggesting is doable, but like others said, it would probably take insane amounts of time and money. Why not just save the time, sell the 9-3SS, and buy another car that fits your needs/wants better? Something like this is only really "practical" for a speedshop or somebody with ALOT of money, time, and skill. It would also produce a car that would be a hard sell in the future too, so that's something you have to take into consideration also. Are you prepared to spend 5-10k for 150 add'l hp and a car that you could probably only sell for 50 cents on every dollar you have into it? I think the idea here is good, but it would be much easier/cheaper/less painful to just get something else. Good luck.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:54 AM  
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after all was said and done, you'd still have a car that was FWDLOL.....
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:25 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1llsh0rty View Post
god i love that car! but what gets me is that the Ecotec motor is actually pretty damn stout. especially seeing the aftermarket support for it. you could build one hell of a B207 motor.... so why hasnt anyone done it yet?
That wonderful engine that when GM tried to see how far it could go blew all 4 rods simultaneously before the 300 hp mark?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:53 AM  
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That wonderful engine that when GM tried to see how far it could go blew all 4 rods simultaneously before the 300 hp mark?
Ecotechs really???... Lots of 400 hp cobolts with the same engine.

That engine is way lighter like by half, would be a great engine to build

T8 will be cracked
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:55 AM  
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Ecotechs really???... Lots of 400 hp cobolts with the same engine.
Are we talking about the supercharged Cobalt or the direct injection turbo? Cause those are two different engines.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:10 PM  
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Really I thought the ecotech block was an ecotech, the LK9 and LNF are the same block, different configurations but the same
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:16 PM  
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Really I thought the ecotech block was an ecotech, the LK9 and LNF are the same block, different configurations but the same
The block is the same, it's the rods and pistons they changed.

I meant the engine taken as a whole unit was different.

EDIT: apparently the block was changed too.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:35 PM  
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The Saab 9-3 has the LK9 ECOTEC utilizing a reinforced sand cast aluminum cylinder head and reinforced internal components (which means cheap ...the Cobalt SS have the LNF which is a way better engine...I would imagine you could swap these engine...I would have to do more research

Stage 1 BSR for these is 300+HP

LNF Info:

A turbocharged direct injected (redubbed Spark Ignition Direct Injection) Ecotec was introduced in the 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Red Line. It is a longitudinally mounted engine. Displacement is 2.0 L1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)with a square 86 millimetres (3.4 in) bore and stroke. Compression is 9.2:1 and maximum boost is 1.4 bar (20.0 psi), delivering 260 hp (190 kW) at 5300 rpm and 260 lbft (350 Nm) of torque from 25005250 rpm. Engine redline is at 6300 rpm and premium fuel is recommended. The sodium filled exhaust valves were based on technology developed for the Corvette V8 powertrains. The sodium fuses and becomes a liquid at idle, which improves conductivity and draws heat away from the valve face and valve guide towards the stem to be cooled by the engine oil circulating in this area. The camshaft-driven direct injection systems pressurizes the fuel to 52 bar (750 psi) at idle, and up to 155 bar (2,250 psi) at wide-open throttle. The "Gen II" block is similar to the 2.4 L and also features VVT technology. The Gen II block was developed using data from racing programs and computer simulations. The bore walls and bulkheads were strengthened with a weight increase of 1 kg (2.5 pounds). The coolant jackets were expanded to improve heat rejection, resulting in a coolant capacity increase of 0.5 liters.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:53 AM  
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Wrong way on the technology.

If you want a project swap to the newer Ecotec with cam phasing and direct injection! These make nice broad power with little mods and given the work to fit the wrong motor this is a more achievable project. ~3K for a motec and leave t8 in the car to run the gauges. Now finding someone to map it from scratch would be not so cheap. Could probably just fit ME9 from a cobalt and go for it. BCM integration might be tricky.
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2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 E85
Viggen 439whp / 447tq 12.43 @114 on Gt2871.64, (Now 511whp Gt3076)
Nordic E85 9-3 SS Aero 320hp / 350ftlbs
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