2nd turbo failing at 96k miles, what to get now? - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab 9-5 '98-'09 Forum > Performance Modifications for the 9-5

Performance Modifications for the 9-5 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the 9-5. This may also include suspension.

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2009, 11:48 AM   #1
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
2nd turbo failing at 96k miles, what to get now?

First turbo failed while on the last days of warranty (49,950 miles on 50,000 mile warranty...), and now this one. I do change oil faithfully every 3000 with Mobil-1.

Car is 2002 Wagon, and has the GS CAI, Forge BPV, BSR cat-back, and MP DP. Should I stick with another TD04, or go with something else? If so what? I'd really not like to re-engineer the exhaust manifold or DP, so something bolt-on would be preferable. I've been reading about the TD06 in lekonna's thread on "another build" as a possible direct bolt-on. Anyone else have experience with it?

Thanks, Jim
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-05-2009, 11:52 AM   #2
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
someguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 978
Send a message via AIM to someguy
Is it possible to send it out for a rebuild?

Odd that two would go out on you at 50,000 mile increments, I thought ht eTD04 was supposed to be pretty robust.
__________________
President and Founder of the NJSA- "We bring nothing to the table."

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1999 M3 Cabrio
someguy is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 11:59 AM   #3
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
So did I (robust comment). This car was primarily driven by my wife before the twins and the 9-7X Aero came into the picture. Pretty lightly driven historically.

Yeah, I could have it rebuilt. Just weighing options at this point. I was planning an ECU upgrade anyway and if the turbo is suspect, I'm thinking now would be the time to upgrade it as well.
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2009, 12:05 PM   #4
Elder
 
viggenkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the trenches taking grenades
Posts: 4,853
Send a message via AIM to viggenkid
thats really odd. my brother has over 100k on his lpt 9-5 (and those are supposed to be weak!)

i have 70k on my td04 with no smoke or issues.

i would rebuild it and get a tune and try using a different oil. have you dropped the pan to check for sludge? maybe one of your lines is partially clogged and starving the turbo?
__________________
Quote:
So, in summary...who gives a flying fack.
viggenkid is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:37 PM   #5
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
Chadwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 757
Send a message via AIM to Chadwick
Turbo's don't just fail like that.

What was the source of your 2nd unit? I know you said it was replaced under warranty, but do you know it was a new turbo? Many shops and dealers send stuff to me for rebuilding, and I'm sure they're selling them as *NEW* turbos to their clients. Oh well, not my place to be Mr. Ethics.

I assume you've got the crankcase update?

What was the failure pattern of the first one, smoking or did it just detonate? What was the shaft play situation? Was a new oil feed line installed with the warranty unit?

What happened with this one? Just driving and it let go?

If you're contemplating a rebuild send it my way if you'd like, I can definitely at least tell you what's going on and why it failed.

Best,
-Chad
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Chad Lowers
Simply SAAB, of Pittsburgh, PA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'00 9-5 Aero
Chadwick is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:42 PM   #6
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadwick View Post
Turbo's don't just fail like that.

What was the source of your 2nd unit? I know you said it was replaced under warranty, but do you know it was a new turbo? Many shops and dealers send stuff to me for rebuilding, and I'm sure they're selling them as *NEW* turbos to their clients. Oh well, not my place to be Mr. Ethics.

I assume you've got the crankcase update?

What was the failure pattern of the first one, smoking or did it just detonate? What was the shaft play situation? Was a new oil feed line installed with the warranty unit?

What happened with this one? Just driving and it let go?

If you're contemplating a rebuild send it my way if you'd like, I can definitely at least tell you what's going on and why it failed.

Best,
-Chad

It was under warranty: Source was the dealership.

Yep, got the crankcase update.

Car is still drivable, but does smoke a bit at start up. We suspect the seals are just starting to go. Turbo could last years, could go a week from Tuesday. I'm just monitoring and see how it goes.

How we discovered the problem was really out of left field: Brought the car into S&S to recharge the AC/look for leaks. In doing their diagnosis, let the car idle for hours with the AC on, die in the lines to check for leaks.

Anyhoo, I come to pick up the car in the evening and take off, leaving a HUGE plume of blue smoke.

Seems idling with no real load on the engine for several hours allowed oil to seep through the shaft seals and pool in the exhaust. Once I romp on it, it blows all that junk out.

SO, the turbo may just be fine, seals just starting to go, OR....

Time will tell. If it goes "DefCon-5", I'm just looking to see what options I may have.

Doing the ECU may have to be put on hold -- driving more boost on a suspect turbo isn't my idea of a picnic...
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.

Last edited by Talladega900; 05-05-2009 at 12:48 PM.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:42 PM   #7
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 10,066
Send a message via AIM to Jameson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadwick View Post
Turbo's don't just fail like that.

What was the source of your 2nd unit? I know you said it was replaced under warranty, but do you know it was a new turbo? Many shops and dealers send stuff to me for rebuilding, and I'm sure they're selling them as *NEW* turbos to their clients. Oh well, not my place to be Mr. Ethics.

I assume you've got the crankcase update?

What was the failure pattern of the first one, smoking or did it just detonate? What was the shaft play situation? Was a new oil feed line installed with the warranty unit?

What happened with this one? Just driving and it let go?

If you're contemplating a rebuild send it my way if you'd like, I can definitely at least tell you what's going on and why it failed.

Best,
-Chad
Win.

Once that happens, a modified TD04 with maybe an 18T vs the stock 15T would be a nice upgrade that should keep modifications to your exisiting setup to a minimum. Throw in some T-5 cams and a tune and you are right there at near the shreshold of your pistons hehe.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jameson is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #8
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
Win.

Once that happens, a modified TD04 with maybe an 18T vs the stock 15T would be a nice upgrade that should keep modifications to your exisiting setup to a minimum. Throw in some T-5 cams and a tune and you are right there at near the shreshold of your pistons hehe.
I like the way you think, Jameson!

Now the quandry expands: I had wanted to do some mods to the Goat this summer... Ah, well, this hobby is a love/hate thing. Goat has no pressing need (all the desire, but no need), but the wagon may... Hmmm....
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 12:57 PM   #9
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
Chadwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 757
Send a message via AIM to Chadwick


The turbo is basically done once that starts. The compression ring on the output of the turbine shaft will slowly wear until it either disintegrates and wears the actual output housing of the turbo or wears into the turbine shaft, with more oil being allowed to pass into the exhaust housing in either case. That's why it's so common rebuilds need new turbine shafts. Almost everyone else in the biz just uses oversized compression seals on the turbine shaft to fill the extra space that has been bored by the old one, but that will also just eventually wear.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Chad Lowers
Simply SAAB, of Pittsburgh, PA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'00 9-5 Aero
Chadwick is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 01:01 PM   #10
Elder
 
NahumCC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 9,197
Send a message via AIM to NahumCC Send a message via MSN to NahumCC Send a message via Yahoo to NahumCC
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsu...spagenameZWDVW

Buy that, the compressor wheel you want (18t or 19t), rebuild it yourself. Then send it out to have the compressor housing ported, turbine cliped, and then the assembly balanced. Voila. Easy as pie.

But make sure first that you know if your 18t or 19t compressor wheel is a flat back or super back. That will change which rebuild kit you need.



__________________
2013 FR-S

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NahumCC is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2009, 09:31 PM   #11
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
Aerolike9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Frederick,MD,USA
Posts: 432
Send a message via AIM to Aerolike9 Send a message via MSN to Aerolike9
so i am confused now, is the cause that they left the car on idling for hours? if so make S&S pay for the turbo, or is this not the reason why it is failing?
__________________
Your signature image is too large
Alec
1988 Saab 900-Sold
1999 Saab 9-3-SOLD
1998 Saab 9000CSE-Sold
2001 Saab 9-3 Viggen Vert- Sold
Saab 9-5
Aerolike9 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2009, 11:08 AM   #12
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
Chadwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 757
Send a message via AIM to Chadwick
You can't just throw on the compressor wheel. The base of the CHRA must be machined to fit it since the 18 and 19T's have the wider face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahumCC View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsu...spagenameZWDVW

Buy that, the compressor wheel you want (18t or 19t), rebuild it yourself. Then send it out to have the compressor housing ported, turbine cliped, and then the assembly balanced. Voila. Easy as pie.

But make sure first that you know if your 18t or 19t compressor wheel is a flat back or super back. That will change which rebuild kit you need.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Chad Lowers
Simply SAAB, of Pittsburgh, PA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'00 9-5 Aero
Chadwick is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2009, 11:27 AM   #13
Elder
 
VI009DZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,403
^^ Those pictures are pretty cool Chadwick. Makes sense. Thanks for posting them.
__________________
-adam
VI009DZ is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2009, 05:54 AM   #14
Elder
 
mike d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: nashua NH
Posts: 4,696
Send a message via AIM to mike d
thanks again for the pictures Chadwick, very informative.

ive heard of some issues on these cars due to people running Mobil 1 oil,, it seams to run quite a bit thinner than normal oil, which can cause premature leaks.

ive also heard that exiting the turbo due to the heat it as thin as water, which can leak to lower end failure on high output cars.. however these are just rumors on the boards,, i have no experience with either because i dont run Mobil 1 i can personally vouch that when doing oil changes (at my shop) mobil one comes out of the cars sooo thin,, even when colder,, it doesn't seam like a real 30weight oil.

again,, besides my own experience changing cars oil,, i've only heard story's about the failure trends associated with Mobil one on these cars


has anybody here had experiences like this??
__________________
MikeDTuning.com
mike d is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2009, 07:45 PM   #15
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerolike9 View Post
so i am confused now, is the cause that they left the car on idling for hours? if so make S&S pay for the turbo, or is this not the reason why it is failing?
They didn't cause it. But helped to discover it is all. Extremely slow leak at this point.

We're still driving it, but I have to say, with the 9-7X now in the fleet to haul the twins and their "stuff" around, it doesn't get driven nearly as much as it used to be. I tend to wonder if the lack of driving doesn't adversely affect the the seals.
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2009, 03:29 AM   #16
Elder
 
mcrowley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 12,348
Send a message via AIM to mcrowley
I don't think the lack of driving can really hurt it all that much. 65k on my 9000 and its still got the 14+ year old original turbo from the factory.
__________________
95 9000 Aero
96 900 SE
06 9-5

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mcrowley is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-10-2009, 03:04 PM   #17
Elder
 
Talladega900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jeffersonton, Va.
Posts: 2,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowley View Post
I don't think the lack of driving can really hurt it all that much. 65k on my 9000 and its still got the 14+ year old original turbo from the factory.
Yeah, I know I'm grasping at straws here. It was just a thought: perhaps, oil settles into the pan, seals "dry out" and it starts to leak.
__________________
Jim Miller

'91 900 Turbo SE Convertible
'93 900 Turbo CE #116, modified
'02 9-5 Aero SportWagon, MT
'06 GTO, modified
'08 9-7X 6.0 Aero. The fastest stock Saab I've owned, bar none.
Talladega900 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.