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Performance Modifications for the 9-5 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the 9-5. This may also include suspension.

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Old 06-17-2007, 08:31 AM   #1
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Would they know? (Questions about 9-5)

Buddy's mother has a 9-5 Aero, 2002. Very very pretty car - also quite fun to drive. Anyway, after owning it for a couple of years, she's become accustomed to the power, and it needs some more boost. I was thinking maybe she could get a stage two or three Nordic ECU but am wondering...

The car has just over 100k and it's always seen proper oil changes - she and her husband used to rally Saabs, so they have always taken care of their vehicles. Anyway, the car has an extended dealer warranty, so I was wondering what could be done to the car safely so as to not rise any suspicion from the dealership... I know firsthand though, that those people in general don't have a clue - it's also not a "Saab" dealership, I believe it's a Chrysler one...

Anyway, anyone have any ideas? I see Stage 3 requires ECU, catback, 3.5 fpr, downpipe and is the open intake necessary? Definitely don't want to violate the warranty as I believe she just extended it again and it has already paid for itself several times over...
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:34 AM   #2
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If anything looks like its not stock then it would violate warranty. Soo the exhaust, different FPR, CAI, etc.........

As for the ECU I know tech 2 can see lots of specific info and if they took it for a run and thought something was amiss from all the power and got to looking with tech 2 they may or may not be able to tell.

However I do believe there was a saab sport exhaust version for the 9-5. If you got that on there it wouldn't violate it seeing as it was a saab accessory item.



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Old 06-17-2007, 08:37 AM   #3
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well, even with a really good tech with the tech 2 probably cant even notice that there is an aftermarket ecu in there, so you should be all set on that one.

paul of automotion was discussing that one with blue9-3se at carlisle, and its easy to do.

if the dealer will look past a catback exhaust, then stage 2 would be a great spot to go. especially if they can find a saabsport for it, since that was a dealer option and probably wont even be thought twice about.

and for my own personal opinion, i would definitely have my mom driving a stage 2 aero, but the next step up to stage 3 kinda scares me. just because of all the stuff that i know can go wrong. aero stage 3 is kind of like the upper limit for what a lot of parts can handle, especially when giving it a good beating for a little while.

and i would say stage 2 is easier to conceal, since there is no aftermarket downpipe required!


any more questions, just ask!
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
If anything looks like its not stock then it would violate warranty.
somewhat true to an extent, but this is a chrysler dealer. so i wouldnt be too concerned, unless a gt30 is getting bolted up.

Quote:
Soo the exhaust,
shouldnt be a problem
Quote:
different FPR,
looks exactly the same as a stock one, and some tuning companies dont even require them.
Quote:
CAI,
isnt necessary at all. lots of guys run stock airboxes with k&n filters up to 350bhp over on SC. and a k&n definitely wont be voiding any warranties!


Quote:
As for the ECU I know tech 2 can see lots of specific info and if they took it for a run and thought something was amiss from all the power and got to looking with tech 2 they may or may not be able to tell.
yeah, i have had the tech 2 hooked up countless times to look and see what i could find, and guess what, nothing!

the only thing would be that they could take it out for a spin and run the hp graph and boost it through 3rd, and see that it makes more power, but most average techs dont even know that the "dyno" is in there!
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:45 AM   #5
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Heres the cat back for the 9-5 from Nick.

http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/p...roducts_id=423

500 dollars basically once you include the shipping.

I love having an aftermarket warranty because they never see whats on my car and don't care. I just get it called in by the shop with a quote for parts and labor then recieve approval and fix.



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Last edited by NahumCC; 06-17-2007 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Corrected for incorrect information.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:47 AM   #6
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Hey Nick from what was said over on SC if the software and hardware is changed that the tech 2 power graphing isn't as accurate. Thanks for that insight though on what the tech 2 does see.



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Old 06-17-2007, 08:47 AM   #7
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that isnt the saabsport. nick had to get something else to take its place when saab stopped producing them.

i know i had a killer time 2 years ago finding mine, and they were just ending production on them at that time.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NahumCC View Post
Hey Nick from what was said over on SC if the software and hardware is changed that the tech 2 power graphing isn't as accurate. Thanks for that insight though on what the tech 2 does see.
trust me that its accurate. i have run the hp and torque graphs on a friday evening last summer, and then the next saturday, i was on the dyno and they were almost spot on. off by like 3hp or so, and a couple ft lbs.

and then there is also a doctor up here with a stage 3 vig, and it was the same thing when they installed his nordic box. on the way to the dyno for him, the tech ran the graph, and it was again almost right on.



obviously, it isnt 100% accurate, but its fairly close.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:02 AM   #9
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I know this has come up before, but seriously things like a cat-back CAN NOT void your warranty.. except for, obviously, on the exhaust. Google the magnusson-moss act.

Yes, in the end, if the dealer says no you have to fight them tooth and nail. Granted, thats not very fun, but you _will_ win. SoCal is the heart of the sport compact scene, so dealers around here are more than used to mods and very well informed about the act which makes things a lot easier... but I know more than a few people who have fought and won. Now, flashing the ECU is another story.. that definitely voids the warranty.

As Nick said, it would take a smart and incredibly diligent tech to actually figure it out(the common worry on SC is looking at the peak boost value which is apparantly stored somewhere) but if you are super worried you can also buy a junkyard ECU and send that off to get flashed. Then when you need warranty work take 5 minutes to switch out the ECU's, and you will have your original that has not been touched so there will be nothing to find.

I also agree that stage 2 is probably plenty for her, especially for reliability.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:52 AM   #10
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dealers will find anything they can to void your warranty. I would be kinda on the fence about doing the mods, you may be pushing your luck.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:10 AM   #11
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After reading the Magnusson-Moss Act, I feel somewhat enlightened. Never knew something like this existed! I'll have to talk to her about it and see what she wants to do.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Federal Law Allows Customers To Service Car At Any Facility
Often we hear from some customers that say they have purchased a new vehicle elsewhere and, therefore, can no longer service with us until their car is out of warranty. When questioning customers about this statement, we often learn that they were told by their salesman that they have to stay with the selling dealer for all repair work in order to maintain factory warranty. Any vehicle dealer that makes that statement is directly violating the federal Magnus-Moss Warranty Act. In addition, a manufacturer cannot mandate that only their brand parts be used to validate warranty. The only time a vehicle must be serviced by the dealer is for a manufacturer recall. If a dealer tries to mandate that they must perform all the routine service work, then that dealer must provide all service and parts free of charge to the customer.

In addition, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle.
The act states:

(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission. No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if - (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.
From, http://www.samscars.com/sam-8-4.htm.

Found this while searching about the Magnus-Moss Act. So would this imply that for simple aftermarket parts like an intercooler, intake, full exhaust (downpipe specifically), and bov/bpv wouldn't void warranty as they are all aftermarket pars? Guess if you paid a lawyer enough you could win that one.



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Old 06-17-2007, 11:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NahumCC View Post
From, http://www.samscars.com/sam-8-4.htm.

Found this while searching about the Magnus-Moss Act. So would this imply that for simple aftermarket parts like an intercooler, intake, full exhaust (downpipe specifically), and bov/bpv wouldn't void warranty as they are all aftermarket pars? Guess if you paid a lawyer enough you could win that one.
if you have an aftermarket intercooler on your car, and your suspension breaks while under warranty, they can't deny your claim because the intercooler obviously has nothing to do with the failure. if the failure were a throttle body, they may have some grounds, but they still have to prove how the failure occurred and that it was a result of your installation of an intercooler. you shouldnt need to pay a lawyer, the burden of proof is on the warranter.
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:26 PM   #14
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And I'd say the chances of something actually happening would be pretty slim.
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:22 PM   #15
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something that could be an issue though is if the transmission blows up, and the tune is partly the blame, due to the high stress of added boost, that could be a legitimate reason for not allowing a warranty claim.
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Old 06-17-2007, 04:00 PM   #16
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in that case if you could prove the metal was defective from the factory you could get them to honor the warranty. though that takes a metallurgist and $$ to inspect the broken components for possible defects.
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Old 06-17-2007, 04:02 PM   #17
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But 30-40 more hp / tq at the crank shouldn't be THAT much more stress though...
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