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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-04-2009 09:41 AM
JZW Yea, I thought so in the beggining. The helper spring can be monitored with a boost gage and easily set to 9psi, that is what I liked to run with my t28.

People should also realize the t25 actuator is garbage and much weaker than the tdo4 turbo actuator, so there is an issue there too.

I will say, the helper spring is not as smooth as the nice forge one and its travel and spring tension is not as consistant, I will concur on that point, but for 5 bucks, I will give up a little more consistancy.

Once you run a helper spring for a little while, it gets hot and softens and then starts to work much smoother and consistantly. I have been running them for years on my aero and my ng900 and had to run one in conjuction with my 14psi actuator on my gt3076wg and have always had good luck with them and would still buy a helper spring at 5 bucks over an expensive forge type unit.

John
10-04-2009 09:34 AM
mike saunders John, if you read closely, you'll see that we're on the same page that it's probably not a programming issue, that it's likely a hardware issue...and probably not fueling.

And sure...use ghetto fixes if you're happy with inconsistent ghetto results. You have no way of knowing the actual tension of the helper spring, or whether it applies the same force throughout its travel, or if it's initially stiff then yields more.

Unless, of course, you have a catalog of all springs made in North America, cross-referenced for length, diameter and force. You're a clever guy...you might actually have that handy.

My overall point above was to help him narrow his troubleshooting down to the most likely possible causes. Maybe a stiffer helper spring will work just fine for a while...
10-04-2009 09:31 AM
JZW Sure, my buddyd drew did
10-04-2009 09:28 AM
saabkid37
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
This tune has worked well on many other cars, there is nothing wrong with the boost mapping, its some hw issue on the car.

John
here we go...did anyone mention the tune?



10-04-2009 09:25 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
I'm with Saabkid. My guess is that adding an extra spring where none is needed instead of actually tuning the boost control is really stupid and messes up your base boost as well as your boost control. But what do I know, I'm just an instrumentation and controls engineer.
If it was stupid, why would the professional companies recommend a higher spring tension acutator for higher stged turbos? Why does the gt3071 come with an actuator with a 14psi spring?

Getting your spring tension higher by using a helper spring is no different if you use an external spring or an internal spring.

You are an engineer and you cannot see how simple this is?????

You are pretty much like most of the other engineers I talk with on a daily basis. You go up and over and round and round just to get back to the same place. Increased spring tension is increased spring tension.

You could argue, why not get a new acutator, they are crazy expensive and that is the main problem. If the forge ones were cheap, I would just recommend that and not a helper spring, its just they are priced way too high in my opinion.

I am definetely about doing things in a cost effective way and the helper spring has proven itself on tons of cars from more than one tuner. This is old technology, but for those who don't want to buy a 200 buck forge actuator, its a great way to cheaply fix the weak base boost and or acutator without reducing waste-gate travel.

John
10-04-2009 09:19 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
saabskijc, see the pattern here?
Sure, the pattern is a mis-understanding of how base boost works and that spring tension is spring tension, no matter how you get it. You can buy a 200 buck forge actuator, "with more spring tension" just as many tuners use for increased back pressure on a turbo like a t28 or 19t, or you can buy a 5 buck helper spring and get the base boost where it needs to be.

Yes, it seems ghetto, but in reality, it does the same job as the expensive forge acutator.

Does not matter what your boost mapping is, if the actuator is weak, its not going to make its boost request, no matter how its mapped. If you shorten the rod a ton, you have limited the travel of the waste-gate. The cheap solid answer that works very well for many of these cars is to add a helper spring and get the base boost you need, yet retain the full travel of the actuator and or waste-gate.

John
10-04-2009 09:14 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
a spring will not increase base boost.
Sure it does, the spring tension is where the base boost level comes from. Does not matter if you buy a new forge actuator with a stiffer spring, shorter the stock actuator rod to get more spring tension or add an additional spring to increase the spring tension. They are all doing the same thing, adding more tension to the waste-gate flapper

Even the helper spring is simple, crude and not for everyone, it does the same thing a fancy 200 buck uprated spring actuator does, it just cost much less.

This tune has worked well on many other cars, there is nothing wrong with the boost mapping, its some hw issue on the car.

John
10-04-2009 05:25 AM
mike saunders
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
a spring just holds it shut longer as a band aid, so you are most likely getting your true base boost that the rod is set to instead of what you are getting when a 15 year old actuator is opening early.

but what do i know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston
I'm with Saabkid. My guess is that adding an extra spring where none is needed instead of actually tuning the boost control is really stupid and messes up your base boost as well as your boost control. But what do I know, I'm just an instrumentation and controls engineer.
saabskijc, see the pattern here?
10-03-2009 11:23 PM
Drew in Houston I'm with Saabkid. My guess is that adding an extra spring where none is needed instead of actually tuning the boost control is really stupid and messes up your base boost as well as your boost control. But what do I know, I'm just an instrumentation and controls engineer.
10-03-2009 09:29 PM
saabkid37 a spring just holds it shut longer as a band aid, so you are most likely getting your true base boost that the rod is set to instead of what you are getting when a 15 year old actuator is opening early.

but what do i know.



10-03-2009 07:36 PM
mike9000aero it does on my 9000
10-03-2009 06:56 PM
saabkid37 a spring will not increase base boost.



10-03-2009 06:22 PM
saabskijc Mike without the helper spring I was running 5-6 psi base and since I didn't want to shorten the arm I added the spring to up it I hope that clears up the confusion
10-03-2009 08:24 AM
JZW Base boost on t5 is just with the electrical connector to bpc disconnected, the arm stays connected.

To check base boost, just unplug the electrical connector to the bpc and then drive it wot and what it boost is base boost. When the W hose is disconnected, the turbo is unlimited! WFO!

John
10-03-2009 12:59 AM
bobg450
Fwiw

FWIW, I got base boost with the actuator arm disconnected.
I went into over boost with the arm connected and the 3 lines plugged.
10-02-2009 05:45 PM
mike saunders
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabskijc View Post
I'm not sure I understand what ur saying I didn't get baseboost with my w disconected from the bpc
From your previous posts:

You got 25 psi with the WG disconnected.
With the WG connected, you were able to achieve baseboost...but only with a helper spring.
10-02-2009 04:39 PM
saabskijc I'm not sure I understand what ur saying I didn't get baseboost with my w disconected from the bpc
10-02-2009 05:55 AM
mike saunders You can check it at the rail in the 9-3, but before you do that....

Is it correct to say that you were boosting fine to 20+ PSI when you disconnected the BPV to WG line?

EDIT: I found that post

Quote:
I stated before I ran the wastegate with no hose conected and boosted perfectly above 25 meaning no major boostleaks
Good WOT runs without the hose connected indicates that it's not a fueling issue. If you can do a sustained WOT run without the WG actuator (and are only getting base boost with helper springs) doesn't that point to the actuator being bad, or in need of adjustment?
10-02-2009 05:48 AM
saabskijc How doi check the fuelpimp
10-02-2009 03:27 AM
christian900se I told the OP to check the fuel pump, optimally it would be best to check fuel pressure but thats only if he is able to do so. I know that my car was lagging off a bit up top even though it was only stage 3 at the time and shortly after the fuel pump kicked the bucket.
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