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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-22-2009 06:30 AM
JZW Yea, Dallas is running on e85 and moving to Washington State in a month or so and the tranny is still hanging in there somehow? We did end up toning it done a hair about a month ago.

John
09-21-2009 05:33 PM
Marksy Good work John?. I gotta pull my head out of m @$$ and get a retune. I feel a dead spot between part and WOT.

IS the tranny in Dallas's car still alive ? LOL.
09-21-2009 04:51 PM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineSaab View Post
Vigge,
Well yes but at what altitude....
Depends on what sort of pressure spike you want to feed the compressor right? You have heard my ideas and I have heard yours, I might log with no valve to see. Ill play on the dyno fully instrumented soon then take it to the concrete for a slip.. We had another clutch explode and hurt the gearbox so lots of work before that.
That is too bad about the tranny and clutch damage. I am sure that will happen to mine before too long. Would love to try a solid rear mount. I will try and make one if I cannot find anyone that will let me test one out

John
09-21-2009 04:47 PM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge View Post
There are bigger turbos and bigger turbos, they share the same size but can have very different behaviour. For instance shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my shared toy with 2.0l @ 115km/h leds to 1.5bar boost at the moment when the TB back 100% open, which IHMO is pretty quick
This is true and once I wound the car out to 7800rpm, the spool up was pretty instant, trying to decide if I want to change the gearing, keep the reving up high or maybe try a smaller turbine housing. The higher elevation does kill my spool up for sure.

My main issue is although my rev limit did seem to still be there at 7800rpm, I am not sure it will consistantly there, so my choices are to risk it and run with no limit, hope that the limit will kick in if I spin badly in first or have a tranny go boom and try to get out of it in time. Nira might be the only good answer to this problem, but I may just give it another try with my new 15k tach that is coming tomorrow

It was my first time to the track, there is a lot left on the table in power and I am just getting started. Its too bad there are only 3 test and tune nights left this season. I have all my pieces for the bosh 044 fuel pump now, so it will be run next week with new rpm tach, more boost in all the gears and enough fuel to really let the hammer down with the big turbo. Did not go over 27psi with my first outing as the the e85 fuel was passing 13.8/1 by 7200rpm.

John
09-21-2009 11:05 AM
GenuineSaab Vigge,
Well yes but at what altitude....
Depends on what sort of pressure spike you want to feed the compressor right? You have heard my ideas and I have heard yours, I might log with no valve to see. Ill play on the dyno fully instrumented soon then take it to the concrete for a slip.. We had another clutch explode and hurt the gearbox so lots of work before that.
09-21-2009 10:50 AM
Vigge
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineSaab View Post

One reason I like the little turbo it responds quickly.
There are bigger turbos and bigger turbos, they share the same size but can have very different behaviour. For instance shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my shared toy with 2.0l @ 115km/h leds to 1.5bar boost at the moment when the TB back 100% open, which IHMO is pretty quick
09-20-2009 06:40 PM
JZW Yes, I agree with you and my buddy Steve keeps talking about it and if we could figure out a way to make the saab one stronger or adapt another stronger auto tranny into the car, that would be the way to go in drag racing. There is a cobalt up here running awd and a eclipse auto and he runs 12.2 with it. My buddy is looking into ways to make an auto work and if we can figure out a way that is not too crazy expensive, then it woulld be a good thing for a drag race car.

John
09-20-2009 11:31 AM
bobg450
Wicked High

OK, the high altitude explains the turbo'd cars beating up on non turbo'd cars and bikes.
Any thoughts or comments on the auto trans questions I asked?
09-20-2009 09:12 AM
Saabeh The newer 600's run high 10's. A busa should be in the mid/high 9's.
09-20-2009 08:49 AM
JZW You have to remember we are a mile high and the density altitude was over 7500' and that turns a 10 second bike into a mid 11 or even a low 12 second bike. 20% + power losses take their toll for sure and with a turbo car at elevation, the comparisons are not the same. Many cars like Z-06 vette's and bikes can be beat up here as oppesed to not being able to take them at sea-level.

This is not the first 1000cc bike I have taken here a mile high. I posted a while ago about beating a Honda cbr 1000rr or somthing and people did not seem to believe it, but after checking the data on the slip and beating one on the drag stip, I am more convinced that is possible to whip up on a 1000cc motorcyle up here a mile high.

Just like the Z06 Vette I beat last year, this would not be possible at sea-level, but up here its a whole new ballgame...

John
09-18-2009 02:14 PM
bobg450
Question

A lot of drag machines now run automatics. The torque multiplication is not as violent as the flywheel momentum from a standing start. Shock loading during shifts is reduced. That, to me, results in reduced traction issues to deal with and reduced breakage.
So, the questions are :
What HP levels are the stock 900 automatics capable of handling?
Are there beefed up aftermarket parts available?
Are there software upgrades for the transmission "computer" module?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the old M22 rockcrusher 4 speeds.

Give me a 1970 LS6 454 Chevelle with slicks, a 4.56 12 bolt posi, Hurst Competition Plus shifter, and a close ratio M22.
BTW- bikes are quicker out of the hole cause they weigh about 500# w/rider.
0-60 on these new (stock) mid nine second bikes is about 2.6.
My FZ1 Yamaha (140 HP) was a scary launch. The R1 is even sicker.
Big HP cars will reel them in once you get that 3000# rolling, but you need a strong 10 second car to beat him if the biker knows what he's doing.
09-18-2009 01:44 PM
JZW Yup, its all about gearing and if you do not do it with gearing, the other choices are a smaller turbine housing or higher rev limit. The whole key is to be able to keep the turbo in the power band and if the power band is 5-7k, then you need to be able to shift and fall back into the 5k area.

I don't really want to go with a smaller housing, so it will be some rpm rev limit adjustments and when the time comes, I still want to try the 4.45 since after second gear, its basically the same as the quiafe 6 speed and that would keep my turbo in the power band much better.

John
09-18-2009 01:23 PM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
The big turbo is tuff to launch and its very hard to keep it in the money, so getting a good time in the 1/4 mile with a holset and fwd saab and low rpm limit is very difficult. I had to raise the rev limit to start to do better since as I shifted higher and higher, I would spool in the next gear lower and lower,

John
Yeah really. Even without trying to launch, it was difficult shifting into third at 6800 because it'd drop down to a bad point for continuing strongly.
09-18-2009 09:05 AM
grkguy89 so i wish my car would pull a 12.xx sec 1/4 mile
hell ill be happy if my car does a 15s one
well see after this weekend once i finish the great "motrionic" swap
09-18-2009 06:19 AM
JZW He did have a 2.5 60' time The loss for na is much higher than for turbo cars, around 1.5 seconds or more. A new Z-06 will only run in the low 13's up here in most cases and what 11.5-11.8 at sea-level. It was the best race of the nigh for me, saw him come up as I shifted to third, must have been right around the 1/8th mile, then as the holset came to life, pulled on him in third.

The big turbo is tuff to launch and its very hard to keep it in the money, so getting a good time in the 1/4 mile with a holset and fwd saab and low rpm limit is very difficult. I had to raise the rev limit to start to do better since as I shifted higher and higher, I would spool in the next gear lower and lower,

John
09-17-2009 10:36 PM
comtrang he must have been one crappy driver if it really is a YZF R1 and a 12.8 Saab is on his butt. I know the whole power loss thing but it shouldn't make a 2+ second difference in the quarter for him.

Your threads always make me wanna go back out to the track but I think I'm done with that for awhile..at least til next summer. I have issues getting into second after hard launches in first, and I have nice grinding sounds trying to go into third. Until I get that 9-3 tranny in my car, I stick to roll racing from third.
09-17-2009 08:17 PM
christian900se Btw; glad to see you fixed your corner light for SOC.
09-17-2009 07:46 PM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
that is awesome. what kind of bike was it?
My buddy said it was a Yamaha ZR-1 1000cc bike, he had me at the 1/8th by 2 tenths and by the 1000' I had him by 2 tenths and 3 tenths by the 1/4.

John
09-17-2009 01:35 PM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineSaab View Post
Those 4.05 gears should help the 4.45 should not make that big of a deal. Still will have the same RPm spread but just a lower wheel speed. Then that makes another issue with spin. I have the 3.85 gears too. That presents a different group of reasons. Middle of third through the lights with that versus middle of 4th. So one less gearchange is nice. It becomes apparent the issue when you look at ground torque with the different gears. Just finding the dynamic tire limits is difficult on slicks. I will post a bunch after this weekend.. We are going to another IFO race in Tulsa.

You will most certainly need more rpm to make the gears work. But T5 wont allow more than a 73-7400 safely. I would invest in a nice tach too so that you can watch it. You might not get a limiter from what I have seen. I may plug a t5 back in my drag car and see what it does.

I have a rear race mount if you email me. It was a prototype for the street based on what we run in the back one. Should help lots. Steven commented on them after driving both.. Too harsh for the street. But makes em shift like butter.

One reason I like the little turbo it responds quickly.
I am still getting it dialed in and will get the launch down a little better, I do think the rear mount would help as I had trouble getting second after a hard first gear launch.

I had heard the same thing about the rev limit, but also saw that maptun ran a 8k rev limit with trionic and gave it a whirl. There did seem to be one there and hit it twice, once with it set at 7400rpm about 100yrd short of the beam in third and once at the beam with it set to 7800rpm.

John
09-17-2009 01:24 PM
GenuineSaab We didn't have launch control to run the 12.4 on the viggen.. Still cut a 1.78-1.80 60ft. thats with the baby gt28. Its not about power it how you use what you have..
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