The Saab Link Forums - Reply to Topic

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab 9-5 '98-'09 Forum > Performance Modifications for the 9-5 > SAAB Savior -> GenuineSAAB short shifter, No reverse :-/

Performance Modifications for the 9-5 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the 9-5. This may also include suspension.

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Thread: SAAB Savior -> GenuineSAAB short shifter, No reverse :-/ Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces):
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
03-26-2016 09:44 PM
jpgroth Unfortunate. I now do the same procedure in my vig. First and then travel to reverse, always seems to be more fluid. As well as keeping the feet off the brakes when shifting to reverse.

This is the same point I got to in my 9-5. Keep us posted on the progress. Glad to see you're sticking with the car! LSD?
03-26-2016 09:06 AM
AeroJ Thanks for the info dude. You're right that it's weird on an '03 because this was supposed to be solved in 2002, although my issue could be unrelated to that update I suppose. I do have an update:

After trying and trying to shift into reverse via the output shaft of the transmission, I took it back to my indy. Sadly, this time he wasn't able to shift it from under the hood either

He changed the transmission oil which he said was filthy :-/ but he didn't see any bits of metal in the fluid and only a tiny bit on the magnetic drain plug itself. Unfortunately changing the fluid didn't solve the problem. At this point I guess I'm reluctantly trying to source a used transmission, since a teardown of mine isn't really practical for me from a time or money perspective. I'm having some trouble sourcing one currently...

I did talk to a guy at Eriksson transmissions who used to have rebuilt SAAB trannys for trade out, which would save me some cash. I already spent $3K on the engine rebuild, NOT including the new clutch, pistons, poly subframe bushings and various other parts. This guy didn't have any on hand, but he said there was a reverse syncro 'ring'?? that helps match the engine with the reverse gear like the syncros for the forward gears. I've never heard of such, but I believe it on a SAAB. Anyway, he says it's supposed the move back and forth but it gets stuck sometimes and causes reverse problems. Shifting into 1st or 3rd before trying reverse sort of kicks it back into function according to him, which is EXACTLY the behaviour I've experienced for years. Could be that it was on its way out; could be a coincidence. No way to tell without cracking the trans open, which of course entails dropping the subframe and all the the accompanying joy involved with that :-/

I can't believe I had the transmission out and on the floor of the shop a couple months back and didn't know to address this. So sad.

Thanks for the responses; I'm going to push on and get this 9-5 back on the road or bust!!!
03-20-2016 10:54 PM
jpgroth Thinking back, I did replace parts of the linkage, not the whole assembly. Which didn't help. Is there anyway that output shaft can misalign? I'm thinking that would be a trans teardown to find out though..

It's odd that this is on a '03. I thought the trans revision happened in '02 and fixed most problems like this..
03-20-2016 10:50 PM
jpgroth
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroJ View Post
I didn't see how the linkage could contribute either, unless there was abnormal wear and tear on it or the linkage rod (highly unlikely - that thing is beefy) due to the short shifter installed for years before. At this point I'm replacing cheapest parts first trying to isolate :-/

Did you ever get your issue resolved? I should be able to shift through the gears from under the hood with the linkage removed, but I swear I can't. Last time the car was at my SAAB indy he indeed was able to do it because he backed it out of the garage. This is why he thinks it's not the transmission. While that makes sense, something could have changed in a few weeks; reverse worked ok(ish) for a day or so, but after about an hour drive I got back home and it was inaccessible
Unfortunately the car was totaled before I could pull the trans. So your indy disconnected the linkage and shifted into reverse via the output shaft? That would tell me that its the linkage too. Or something like the internals of trans are not 'synced' with the linkage. But how does that happen? (Rhetorical, thinking out loud). It's like the linkage doesn't have a 'wide' enough spread to reach all gears. I recall reading a procedure somewhere around here about accessing all the gears via the output shaft. Which way to twist, turn and pull etc. Might be useful to run through that procedure to understand what the linkage has to do to get to each gear. Does that make any sense?
03-18-2016 10:17 AM
turbojohnny that's what I was talking about. well I hope somehow this gets sorted out for you.
03-18-2016 10:11 AM
AeroJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohnny View Post
I just briefly skimmed over this thread again. forgive me if it's already been answered, but did you make sure that all of your mounts were in good operating condition? if either left or right mount are worn enough I'm sure it could create enough slop to make this very difficult to align.
If you are referring to engine mounts, they were all replaced very recently. The engine was rebuilt recently, so after having these problems my indy supported the engine, loosened all the mounts and re-seated/retightened all of them to make sure there wasn't some mis-alignment happening there.
03-18-2016 09:53 AM
turbojohnny I just briefly skimmed over this thread again. forgive me if it's already been answered, but did you make sure that all of your mounts were in good operating condition? if either left or right mount are worn enough I'm sure it could create enough slop to make this very difficult to align.
03-18-2016 09:27 AM
AeroJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgroth View Post
Oooo. Very interested in the metal replacements. I had this exact same problem in my old '00 aero. I couldn't get reverse when I 'properly' aligned the shifter. When I adjusted to find reverse, second became fourth and first became third. It was screwy. I spent a shit load of time trying to wrap my brain around it while everyone told me the trans was trashed. I didn't believe it. And it did all go south after I installed the GS short throw..

I never replaced my linkage, but I never saw how that could have been the problem.
I didn't see how the linkage could contribute either, unless there was abnormal wear and tear on it or the linkage rod (highly unlikely - that thing is beefy) due to the short shifter installed for years before. At this point I'm replacing cheapest parts first trying to isolate :-/

Did you ever get your issue resolved? I should be able to shift through the gears from under the hood with the linkage removed, but I swear I can't. Last time the car was at my SAAB indy he indeed was able to do it because he backed it out of the garage. This is why he thinks it's not the transmission. While that makes sense, something could have changed in a few weeks; reverse worked ok(ish) for a day or so, but after about an hour drive I got back home and it was inaccessible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgroth View Post
I'm assuming your trans hasn't been touched?
It hasn't specifically, though the clutch was replaced with all the recent work. I also noticed that when the clutch is not engaged (clutch pedal up) there is a definite whirring of some sort. It makes a sound similar to when a bearing goes bad. Also, driving around in third makes a more pronounced version of the noise. To me, this is pointing more and more towards a transmission issue - perhaps exacerbated by years of having the SAAB Savior short shift installed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
It could be what you guys are seeing is the result of the shifter, but that's not the shifter's fault or a build quality issue. If you think of it like gear ratios, the reason it's "short" is because the modified geometry makes it so that less movement of the shifter causes more movement of shift linkage--which is a trade that increases the overall shift effort. With respect to adjustment, that means that smaller changes in the positioning of the shift rod end to the coupling magnify any mis-alignment.

I'm very interested in metal ends as well, in addition to the ends I think the whole thing flexes too. I've contemplated making a jig and welding together a stiffer all metal linkage assembly...watching it work I think there's a lot of deflection. There's just no time
I'm totally following you, but no matter how minute the changes I try to make with adjusting, I just can't grab reverse. It is extremely frustrating.

As far as the linkage, I think going the McMaster-Carr route might be the cheapest and easiest at this point. Shouldn't be difficult at all to rig up. Just some good measurements on the lengths of the rods really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
I thought someone was making a metal replacement linkage at some point. Possibly [email protected]?
Not that I'm aware, but these metal ones should do the trick nicely!
03-17-2016 07:59 AM
srp I thought someone was making a metal replacement linkage at some point. Possibly [email protected]?
03-17-2016 05:11 AM
Drew in Houston It could be what you guys are seeing is the result of the shifter, but that's not the shifter's fault or a build quality issue. If you think of it like gear ratios, the reason it's "short" is because the modified geometry makes it so that less movement of the shifter causes more movement of shift linkage--which is a trade that increases the overall shift effort. With respect to adjustment, that means that smaller changes in the positioning of the shift rod end to the coupling magnify any mis-alignment.

I'm very interested in metal ends as well, in addition to the ends I think the whole thing flexes too. I've contemplated making a jig and welding together a stiffer all metal linkage assembly...watching it work I think there's a lot of deflection. There's just no time
03-16-2016 08:17 PM
jpgroth I'm assuming your trans hasn't been touched?
03-16-2016 08:12 PM
jpgroth Oooo. Very interested in the metal replacements. I had this exact same problem in my old '00 aero. I couldn't get reverse when I 'properly' aligned the shifter. When I adjusted to find reverse, second became fourth and first became third. It was screwy. I spent a shit load of time trying to wrap my brain around it while everyone told me the trans was trashed. I didn't believe it. And it did all go south after I installed the GS short throw..

I never replaced my linkage, but I never saw how that could have been the problem.
03-16-2016 07:06 PM
Tboy Share some part numbers if you decide to replace the ends!
03-14-2016 07:40 AM
AeroJ Still ongoing believe it or not.

I'm waiting on a used linkage (part with the ball and sockets) that should be in tomorrow. I removed the linkage that was on the car, and although I understand how it is attached and how it works 10x better now, I still can't really tell if there is enough wear to cause my issue. The rubber bushing is a slightly worn, but nothing to cause this IMO. The clamp was stuck in one of the slots, which could be an contributing factor, but we will see when I throw the new linkage in.

The socket joints were improved on the 2004+ and are metal now. I think this is a major area of improvement from the plastic ones with the clips that tend to pop off. I saw a post where a guy ordered stainless steel sockets and threaded rods from McMaster-Carr to update, which I am very much considering doing, especially since they are cheap!



03-12-2016 06:27 AM
Drew in Houston
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohnny View Post
Is there really that much of a difference with the short shifter? I have a friend that installed the GS shifter in his car and he really doesn't like it at all. He highly advised me against installing one in either of my cars.

At this point I would have just sourced an oem shifter assembly and just used that.
I really like the GS shifter in my Viggen and have never had any issues with it; the movement is shorter, and the effort is a little higher and the feeling is more direct. I don't have one in my 9-5 but likely will someday if I pull everything out for a refresh. It depends what you like I think.
03-12-2016 06:25 AM
Drew in Houston
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroJ View Post
I tried locking the transmission in 4th with the pin and then shoving the gearshift in 3rd to get the linkage rod to completely back out of the clamp, but it's really stuck in there...I need to try harder this weekend, but I was afraid something would break :-/
I don't know if you fixed things by now or not, but it sounds like that's your problem for sure.

If the rod isn't free to move inside the pinch collar when the bolt's loose, then you're just loosening and re-tightening the bolt while the rod is still in the exact same position in relation to the shift linkage---the rod position in relation to that collar (both rotation and in-out) is exactly what needs to be set correctly, and if those pieces aren't free to move independently from one another when the bolt is loosened, then nothing is being adjusted. Don't be a afraid to pull the rod completely out by moving the linkage all the way forward and holding it there and then getting someone to move the shifter the opposite way up into 3rd.

Then with the rod out it's easier to slide a large flat-blade screwdriver in there and gently twist to spread things open.
03-10-2016 03:07 AM
turbojohnny Is there really that much of a difference with the short shifter? I have a friend that installed the GS shifter in his car and he really doesn't like it at all. He highly advised me against installing one in either of my cars.

At this point I would have just sourced an oem shifter assembly and just used that.
03-09-2016 12:04 PM
Saab95Aero i noticed my heater core delete hoses also did contact the linkage
03-04-2016 10:17 AM
AeroJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
Try not using the locating pins and have someone pull back lightly but continuously into where 4th should be, while you keep the linkage in position and tighten the jam nut, then if not good loosen and have the inside guy tweak left/right based on the results.
First off I want to thank you for your responses. It seems like I'm getting nowhere with this and you understand exactly the issue I'm troubleshooting. With that said, I've tried this method numerous times, with the disclaimer that the person holding inside the cabin is my girlfriend who is quite petite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
Edit: when you loosen, to adjust left/right and originally, be sure to spread the grips open a little, slip a flat screwdriver in gap and twist a little, so that knurled shift rod end is truly free floating inside so that the minor adjustments aren't just taking slack out of the linkage.
I need to definitely try doing this. I'm not sure what I can use to spread the receiver end open but I'm going to try. It's pretty stout! What you are describing though is exactly what I had thought about doing. I tried locking the transmission in 4th with the pin and then shoving the gearshift in 3rd to get the linkage rod to completely back out of the clamp, but it's really stuck in there...I need to try harder this weekend, but I was afraid something would break :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
Besides possibly being slightly tweaked, the little plastic socket and sliding/rotating stuff can wear so the pins aren't sufficient to align everything so there can be unaccounted for slop, my experience. I don't use them at all and just put things where they need to be on both sides as a two person job
yeah, way back when I installed the SAAB Savior short shift, I found the aligning pins to be pretty useless for alignment, particularly since that shifter was so aggressive in the throw reduction. I was hoping that with the Taliaferro short shift I would be able to use the WIS method, but it doesn't look like it..

Only other things I can think of are to get hold of a used shift linkage rod and/or linkage assembly, if nothing more than just to swap in and see what I've got for comparison. The linkage assembly new is almost $400 so I would like to avoid purchasing that if possible, obviously..

Cheers again for the time to respond!
03-04-2016 07:46 AM
Drew in Houston Try not using the locating pins and have someone pull back lightly but continuously into where 4th should be, while you keep the linkage in position and tighten the jam nut, then if not good loosen and have the inside guy tweak left/right based on the results.

Edit: when you loosen, to adjust left/right and originally, be sure to spread the grips open a little, slip a flat screwdriver in gap and twist a little, so that knurled shift rod end is truly free floating inside so that the minor adjustments aren't just taking slack out of the linkage.

Besides possibly being slightly tweaked, the little plastic socket and sliding/rotating stuff can wear so the pins aren't sufficient to align everything so there can be unaccounted for slop, my experience. I don't use them at all and just put things where they need to be on both sides as a two person job
This thread has more than 20 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.