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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Thread: Air/Fuel ratio meter Installed. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-04-2006 12:58 PM
Galvas Hum...
Interesting.....
10-03-2006 06:04 PM
8valvegrowl I thought I'd chime in here...you can make an Autometer gauge a little more useful for tuning and protection with a few simple resistor mods.

I have an Autometer that now reads the standard narrow band 02 sensor, but only operates at WOT (so no raves at cruise...thank god) and it reads only between .78 and 1V (.78-.82 = lean, .83-.94 = stoic, .96+ rich) so you get a much more accurate gauge at WOT. Older Autometers are easy to do...I can try to dig up circuit schematics....newer autometers are tougher to mod....different circuit unfortunately....but anything built before 2006 is a snap.

i call it the intermediate band....more sensitive and accurate than standard useless narrow-band A/F gauges, but not as good as wideband (but a helluva lot cheaper.)
10-03-2006 05:19 PM
CooperS7777
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulH View Post
yeah, no, cant just buy a vw sensor and hook that to an a/f gauge, doesnt work that way. you can buy an LC-1 from innovate motorsports, wich will control the vw sensor, and output a signal that a regular gauge can display.

Paul
There is another controller you can use to run a standard gague with a wideband O2 sensor, much cheaper than the Innovate gague setup but I forget who makes it...
10-03-2006 04:04 PM
Drew in Houston
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepr56 View Post
Order up the autometer a/f gauge, or any basic a/f gauge and wire it into your stock o2 sensor. Thats what you are looking to do, and you are all set to do it. Just dont look for acurate incomming readings from that gauge unless you are wot. And even then its a pretty basic reading.

Im sure though by the time you notice it go completely lean at wot (if a fuel problem ever occured), it will be to late anyways, not to bring your hopes down or anything
The problem is that you won't know as you're leaning out, at WOT, or under any conditions. 14.0:1 is way too lean at WOT but would still be shown on a narrowband gauge as rich because there's more fuel than air present.

The only useable information that a narrowband gauge tapped directly into a narrowband sensor can tell you is if you're above a 14.7:1 ratio or below. That's it. So in fact the only time a narrowband reading is accurate is when you're at a perfect combustion ratio.

Maximum power for any gasoline fueled spark ignited engine is found around 12.1 to 12.6:1 AFR. If you get much leaner than 13.0:1 at WOT you are too lean and are beginning to approach a dangerous situation--meanwhile a narrowband AFR gauge is telling you that you're rich. Lean is hot and hot starts to melt things and cause predetonation. As I understand it, a lot of turbo tuners will argue that ratios closer to 11:1 are more appropriate at WOT because it allows some extra safety margin--especially when you're doing things like mail order tuning where the software isn't exactly tuned to match the particulars of an individual engine. Still, AFR's in the range of 12.1-12.6:1 have been repeatedly tested and proven to provide maximum power.

If you were only going to get one gauge and wideband AFR was not an option it would probably be better to get an EGT setup and mount the sensor pre-turbo.
10-03-2006 03:13 PM
lms Like drew stated, they are all show and no go. I had one on my spg and it drove me nuts. This was about 4 years ago though. I used it only to adjust the fuel mixture via AMM when idleing. Besides that it's pretty much flash.
You can buy ones for around 125 or so that you have to place into the DP via another sensor. These will tell you how your a\f mixture is doing without logging. #r you can get a lm1 for around 400.
10-03-2006 03:05 PM
Sleepr56 Order up the autometer a/f gauge, or any basic a/f gauge and wire it into your stock o2 sensor. Thats what you are looking to do, and you are all set to do it. Just dont look for acurate incomming readings from that gauge unless you are wot. And even then its a pretty basic reading.

Im sure though by the time you notice it go completely lean at wot (if a fuel problem ever occured), it will be to late anyways, not to bring your hopes down or anything
10-03-2006 03:00 PM
Galvas Men... i´m getting more and more confused.....
Well this is too technical to me....
My knoledje on AFR meters is:
they are good info to know when your car is in an situation that could damage your engine (too lean or too rich - too rich is better tho)
That´s it...
Now, i just wanted to know if i can buy any AFR gauge to conect one of the wires to the O2 sensor.... and that thing of wide...narrow band is getting me confused....

To me, wide band sensors are good to the guys who needs more data to work... like on engine management.... right??
10-03-2006 12:59 PM
Drew in Houston

Don't want to offend, but a gauge reading narrowband A/F doesn't give much useful information beyond some cool blinking lights. The problem is that the signal coming from the sensor is pretty much a switch that only tells you if you're above or below 1:1, checkout how non-linear the sensor response is above.

Here's a link to the low cost wide band setup that I'm using. It spans the output over 0-1 volts, so you can monitor wideband A/F with a cheap narrowband gauge as well as log the data. http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO2.html You can get the Automotive version with the, sensor, data logger, extended length cable and 0-1V output for $285.00 plus the cost of a narrowband gauge. The Zeitronix package also seems like a pretty good deal, but I don't have any direct experience with it.
10-02-2006 08:46 PM
PaulH yeah, no, cant just buy a vw sensor and hook that to an a/f gauge, doesnt work that way. you can buy an LC-1 from innovate motorsports, wich will control the vw sensor, and output a signal that a regular gauge can display.

Paul
10-02-2006 07:12 PM
Sleepr56 Hmmm, I didn't think you could use a wide ban on a typical a/f sensor, due to electrical ability to read such fine voltage input within the gauge itself. (if that sounds right, haha)

Wide ban kits (gauge/data logging/sensors) have drastically come down in price this past year or so. Search honda-tech and you can find crazy good group buys on really nice setups. I would consider one with I ever decide to go with a piggy back setup for the saab. Dunno what my ecu plans are yet.
10-02-2006 06:55 PM
CooperS7777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepr56 View Post
Wide ban gives me a larger varience in voltage input from the sensor, those sensors are not typically factory sensors, which range from $280-500 depending on the sensor and device to read or record. Those are typically used for tuning.

You will just need a regular a/f monitor, like autometer or anything that doesnt say wide ban. I have never been a big fan of the autometer gauge (or autometer gauges in general), seems like your car would turn into a rave before you got some actual results from it (no offence ben).
On the contrary, a wideband O2 sensor will work with a standard AF gague and a wideband 02 sensor is about 100 dollars itself - VW's use them stock snag one from a VW dealership.

The setup which I am running for wideband (HERE) is about 400 dollars, however it is capable of data logging and sooo much more.
10-02-2006 04:56 PM
Sleepr56 Its too bad they got rid of the d-gauge and replaced it by some weird ricer blue gauge.

The BF series gauges are serious business, with the blacked out faces, but you have to daisy chain them in order for them to function. So you figure 300 a gauge for 2-3 gauges, plus another 350 for the control link, gotta be rollin' in the cash to afford them
10-02-2006 04:54 PM
iwantaviggen i want defi gauges!
10-02-2006 04:35 PM
Sleepr56 Wide ban gives me a larger varience in voltage input from the sensor, those sensors are not typically factory sensors, which range from $280-500 depending on the sensor and device to read or record. Those are typically used for tuning.

You will just need a regular a/f monitor, like autometer or anything that doesnt say wide ban. I have never been a big fan of the autometer gauge (or autometer gauges in general), seems like your car would turn into a rave before you got some actual results from it (no offence ben).
10-02-2006 04:01 PM
Galvas Can you tell me how i know if my car needs a afm with wide band or not??
What´s the diference???
10-02-2006 03:49 PM
Sleepr56 You can use any a/f gauge that will work with a standard o2 sensor. There are a/f gauges that only work with wideban 02's, but you will notice the high price tag on those.

I have this defi a/f gauge in my previous car....


I put an entirely seperate o2 sensor in for this gauge (4wire), do not pick up any ecu interference. I was very happy with the setup.
10-02-2006 02:49 PM
Galvas Tell me something...
Can i fit any AFM gauge?? There´s no one for turboed cars is it???
The only diference between them is the ones that have senders and the ones that doesn´t.... right??
Any on-line store recommended????

Thanks....
03-01-2004 03:54 PM
Tweek's Turbos So far,
Performance:
Blaque_Outs intake with K&N
Forge BOV
Dawes MBC
Extrude honed castings
T-28 Turbo
Viggen Intercooler
JT 3inch dp with no cat
Saabsport exhaust.

Suspension:
SAS rear Bar 22mm
9-3SE front bar 24mm
All front poly bushings
Zimmerman XDrilled rotors
EBC pads.
Potenza SO-3 pole positions.


Soon adding:
Electric exhaust cut out.
Propane Injection system
02-28-2004 07:45 PM
DC_SAAB Nice....really nice.

what's your car have in her for mods?
02-26-2004 10:47 PM
NineThreeTurbo looks nice tweek... thanks for the idea of the boost gauge in the stock light switch housing. fits perfect and looks great..
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