|07-23-2004 10:28 AM|
Kevin, I may have a guy that can do Carbon Fiber. He does overlaying pretty well and he said he can do molding, but prefers not.
If you want I can give you his info so you can contact him.
|07-23-2004 09:34 AM|
I just liked the different texture even though it comes a little close to "pimp my ride", but I think it will look great once the full interior is together. Also, I had seen it in a few cars at a show and it inspired me. Will I do it again, not sure. Will have to see what the final product looks like. I am off on the carbon fiber thing now. Having been frustrated with finding someone to do the carbon fiber work, I am trying it myself. I put together a DI cover that I had been working on last night and will post some pics once the epoxy cures.
|07-23-2004 05:44 AM|
I think it brings it upscale a bit. Something we have been lacking even with our cars price ranges.
I drove a few MBWs the other day for Drive for a cure. The steering wheels use sued, and I remember when the S4 came out, sued was used in the seats.
xaamottomaax, that was the funiest thing I have read today.
|07-22-2004 07:39 PM|
|Blaque||Lol yea i do have to ask....lol....what pursuaded you to go Ultrasuede? Heh not like I have a problem with it, its just ultrasuede doesn't suddenly pop into my mind when I think of a Saab dash.|
|07-22-2004 06:06 PM|
|xaamottomaax||When you have 450hp and an ultrasuede dash , it doesnt matter which program you use!|
|07-22-2004 04:45 PM|
T7, who needs the stinking T7?
Just kidding, trying to get you all going! Each system just presents obstacles to overcome, some more difficult than others, but not insurmountable. Also, you might notice that some of the most knowledgeable people can talk in the simplest terms. This is often a sign of true understanding. OK, enough of that, I am starting to cry.
|07-22-2004 03:46 PM|
|mike saunders||Apologies for the appearance of a threadjack....My post was only tangentially related....|
|07-22-2004 03:13 PM|
Go here: https://www.saablink.net/TSL/saabforu...?p=15114#15114
I'll try to answer ... let's get a discussion outta Kevin's thread.
|07-22-2004 03:07 PM|
Fellas, find a different thread OK? If you feel the topic has exhausted your interest, find a different topic. Some of us actually WANT to know the intricacies of Trionic 7 and this is why we have forums. The 6 pages of Hudson Valley Dyno Day posts and instructions on how to paint your spark plug cap solar yellow might bore me but I don't complain because...this is why we have forums.
Adrian, bear with me here as I try to get an understanding on some things...My specialty is sales and not engineering or physics so I have lots of catching up to do. Hopefully you can appreciate a good discussion where you are giving information more than receiving or even exchanging information.
|07-22-2004 03:01 PM|
So, Adrian, should I have anything to worry about if I'm bypassing the MAF sensor and using the T5 intake and throttle body in putting a B205R into a 97 SET?
I'm still planning to the use the T5 ECU, but with an eventual Stage 4 SQR upgrade...
|07-22-2004 02:54 PM|
|07-22-2004 02:48 PM|
|SaabTuner||Sorry *hangs head in shame*|
|07-22-2004 02:37 PM|
|Tweek's Turbos||Cmon guys.|
|07-22-2004 02:35 PM|
Ok. WE GET IT
You cannot gain any hp with a T7 without modifying the ecu
Phew...Finally got that settled...
|07-22-2004 02:30 PM|
Firstly boost CONSTANTLY changes on T7 depending on everything from altitude, to temperature, to humidity. You must understand that T7 will boost to a certain air-mass/combust ... this is just determined by what the MAF sensor reads vs. RPM.
However, there is potential for things to get screwy once modified because during spool up the MAP sensor is used to "correct" the air-mass/combustion value. This is due to the large inertia of the air in the induction system. (The MAF sensor is so far from the throttle and intake ports that it takes a while for its readings to "catch up".) So during spool up, the change in VE could cause a bad reading, and I don't know exactly what effect that would have.
The airmass calculation in a MAF sensor car goes something like this:
-MAF sensor reads grams/second.
-Engine RPM sensor reads Revolutions/Second.
[grams/second] divided by [revolutions/second] = grams/revolution (this part tells the ECU how much to boost)
[grams/revolution] divided by [desired air/fuel ratio] = fuel required per revolution
In a MAP sensor'd car it goes like this:
-MAP sensor reads pressure in KPa, which is converted to grams/cubic centimeter using temperature and a conversion factor.
-VE tells computer what volume of air the engine will take in each time it opens the intake valves. It varies through the RPM band, and everything from Exhaust to Intake changes it.
-ECU reads RPM.
[MAP in KPa] times[conversion factor to convert MAP and temp to grams/cubic centimeter] times [ VE in liters] divided by [RPM] divided by [desired air/fuel ratio] = Required fuel per revolution
As you can see the changes in VE caused by an exhaust should not affect anything in a T7 car if it were that simple. Unfortunately T7 uses the MAP system AND the air-mass system, so things get a little complicated. It only uses the MAP for correction. (Of course "Tionic" would disagree with much of this, so believe what you like.)
Opening the intake could throw off the readings even worse by altering the shape of the airflow over the hot wire. It usually isn't a problem, but be careul.
Intakes and intercoolers slightly reduce how hard the turbo has to pump to generate x boost pressure, this means the turbo runs less duty cycle and thus reduces backpressure on the engine, and changes the VE.
Nearly any conventional method for making horsepower causes a change in VE. That's usually how you MAKE hp.
Intake and intercooler just shouldn't cause a very BIG change, so they shouldn't disturb the system much. Theoretically ...
|07-22-2004 01:34 PM|
Yeah I know what you mean about the language barrier. It seemed to take a while just to differentiate boost adaptation and long term fuel adaptation.
|07-22-2004 12:45 PM|
I felt the same way about Trionic. He is from Switzerland, which is where Hirsch tuning is located. And he had previously made some statements in a topic a while back about Phillip HS's dyno run after Phillip had just come back from Hirsch.
Some of the members likely put 2+2 together ... but he never actually identified himself.
I find that frequently anything I say, regardless of how well informed or poorly informed, is disregarded as soon as the "established wisdom" is expressed.
I also think it just tends to be a European attitide towards many things. They respect the authority more than we Americans do. So if the authority says something, even without evidence, many individuals would jump to follow.
It happens here too a lot. I think it's just a cultural thing.
Also Trionic said a lot of stuff I agreed with, I just didn't believe it was the cause of the "learning down" ... and there was a distict language barrier between us. He and I constantly misunderstood eachother. Which was a shame. He obviously knows a great deal even if I don't agree with him.
I also wish he had posted evidence, any evidence, to support his claims. Had I seen evidence to prove my theory wrong, I wouldn't have hesitated to agree. But thus far, I haven't seen any.
Nick T and I are kind of working on it. (Though I have to admit he'll be doing most of the "work" since I don't have access to any datalogging software as of yet.) Maybe we'll figure something out.
We may find out that Trionic was right, at which point we'll have to try to figure out why. It still does not make sense to me that the MAF sensor could read incorrectly without a modified intake. (Which is another reason NOT to add a modified intake.)
|07-22-2004 10:13 AM|
|07-22-2004 09:46 AM|
You didn't miss much. There was just some discussion how highly technical some of these discussions are. Some people felt that it would be better if things were explained in a way that everyone can understand. That includes myself, and I'm actually in Engineering.
Others felt it was no big deal and they welcome the technicality.
|07-22-2004 09:44 AM|
There was some interesting commentary...you didnt miss anything. As far as your other "trouble", the whole topic was ditched long before the issue was resolved. If someone is going to say flat out, you're wrong, they need to have some evidence to back it up. The guy also has a practical cult following over there. This about summed it up...
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