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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-13-2008 10:41 PM
JZW That is good news, its always a good idea to do a ecu re-set anytime you replace any hw or if you had bad plugs or anything like that. The ecu will learn and adjust for problems, spark, fuel etc.

I once had a bad bpv, but mine would hoot, hooter valve and it would not hold boost, replaced it, consistant boost.

Glad you got it going,

John
08-13-2008 09:14 PM
94CSE
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94CSE View Post
Replacing the BPV did seem to get rid of the boost fluttering.

And I noticed while doing the adaptation runs, it's way too easy to hit 115-120...
Just as an update, I pulled the battery on Monday while I was splicing in a new cooling fan/headlight fuse/relay panel.

After putting it all back together, no more overboost-hitting the fuel cut off. I guess after replacing the bypass (hooter!) valve, I should have reset the ECU. It spikes to about 18-19 now and pulls a nice 16-17psi. Much more consistent all around, and it's nice not hitting the fuel cut-off.
07-25-2008 09:21 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
Great! I was trying to make you feel guilty. There's a ton of guys that are doing real well, but it seems like you're particularly having some great success so that's why I singled you out. Plus I needed an excuse to harass you a little bit, just a little payback for old times sake.

I agree with you about not sharing functional tuned files...although it's pretty interesting to see the amount of "professional" tunes that have a little more in common than plain old luck would seem to allow.
I have been thinking the same thing, there are just too many similarities or should I say exact similarities between a few of the tuners, the style and some of the maps are identical for staged tunes. Things that make you go hhhhhmmmmmmm....

I got a strange one the other day.... It was supposed to be a stock ecu, but I could see it had been moded and the only change I could find was second gear had been brought up to 1.55 in the boost request mapping. I wonder if this is a stage 1 version from someone. I need to look into it and actually see what company or person modded it.

John
07-25-2008 09:16 AM
JK
Quote:
Originally Posted by squarl View Post
t7suite? do you have it or something?
People have been tuning T7 without T7 suite. That said, I think T7 suite has not been released to the masses yet, its in testing I believe.
07-25-2008 08:15 AM
Drew in Houston
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Yea, you made me feel guilty about it and I posted a pretty good 9k stage3+ on the site. If you see that one, you see what I am doing with all my tunes.

What I meant about sharing some files was some of the pro tunes I sent to the finish guys to look over and to our buddy D in the Netherlands. What I meant was I have no problem with you taking a look at the pro tunes I sent to D.

I don't think its fair or ethical to just post up pro tunes cut and dry and I gave them to D for analysis only. I feel you can learn all you need to know by looking at the pro tunes, but just copying them and selling them or sharing them with others is not ethical in my mind.

These pro tunes have a good bit of time in them for sure and I don't think its right to just give them away without permission. I have given my own version away and feel a little funny about it, but like you said, others have put in lots of their time to make this available, so I should share some of my work too.

I am not sharing any of my jsp tunes as Jak was just too good to me for me to just let them out for free and I will hold those close to my heart

I am going to start a t7 viggen tune in about a week and would be interested in talking to you about some of the tuning methods concerning t7. I will pm you in about a week and show you what I have and then maybe we can share some information and maybe this will help me to get a handle on some t7 tuning.

John
Great! I was trying to make you feel guilty. There's a ton of guys that are doing real well, but it seems like you're particularly having some great success so that's why I singled you out. Plus I needed an excuse to harass you a little bit, just a little payback for old times sake.

I agree with you about not sharing functional tuned files...although it's pretty interesting to see the amount of "professional" tunes that have a little more in common than plain old luck would seem to allow.
07-25-2008 07:39 AM
squarl t7suite? do you have it or something?
07-25-2008 07:06 AM
JZW Yea, you made me feel guilty about it and I posted a pretty good 9k stage3+ on the site. If you see that one, you see what I am doing with all my tunes.

What I meant about sharing some files was some of the pro tunes I sent to the finish guys to look over and to our buddy D in the Netherlands. What I meant was I have no problem with you taking a look at the pro tunes I sent to D.

I don't think its fair or ethical to just post up pro tunes cut and dry and I gave them to D for analysis only. I feel you can learn all you need to know by looking at the pro tunes, but just copying them and selling them or sharing them with others is not ethical in my mind.

These pro tunes have a good bit of time in them for sure and I don't think its right to just give them away without permission. I have given my own version away and feel a little funny about it, but like you said, others have put in lots of their time to make this available, so I should share some of my work too.

I am not sharing any of my jsp tunes as Jak was just too good to me for me to just let them out for free and I will hold those close to my heart

I am going to start a t7 viggen tune in about a week and would be interested in talking to you about some of the tuning methods concerning t7. I will pm you in about a week and show you what I have and then maybe we can share some information and maybe this will help me to get a handle on some t7 tuning.

John
07-25-2008 04:25 AM
Drew in Houston Thanks John, it's nice that you'll be freely giving back to the community that created the free tools that you're using. It'll be great to take a look at what kind of T-5 trouble you're creating.

Just for the record, it's not Me that you'll be sharing your files with (believe me I have access to all the files I could ever want) when you post them up. You'll be sharing with all the guys out there who are trying to learn and get to the *stage* that you're at. Who knows, maybe someday you'll go to the dragstrip and see another Saab there. The base tools are free the base knowledge is free, and shared, and so it can all grow quickly with input from everyone putting back in as they learn.

Great job by the way, it looks like your car is making some serious power up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
I have passed around quite a few tunes with the Finish guys and our buddy in the Netherlands. I would not object to you having those tunes.

I should post up some of the current work were the boost comes up to around 18psi and holds until after the torque spike and then climbs on up for a little while and then fades on back down.

The thing is there are so many versions of it with tdo4-5cm2, 6cm2 and the 18t I just did and some are 3 bar map sensor, some guys want to stay stock map sensor, then some want the 3.8 fpr with green giants and some want to run the 3.0 bar fpr. I must have 12 tunes just for all the combinations...

Some want second gear to boil the tires, some want the gradual boost increase and the list just keeps building.

John
07-24-2008 08:38 PM
94CSE Replacing the BPV did seem to get rid of the boost fluttering.

And I noticed while doing the adaptation runs, it's way too easy to hit 115-120...
07-24-2008 08:31 PM
JZW Sounds like the fuel cut needs to be raised a little bit and I actually like to turn it off as I would rather it over-boost a couple of psi than kill the fuel pump and cause it to go lean while the engine is under load.

Adding a helper spring will help with boost consistancy, but it will also cause it to spike a little higher and it sounds like that is not you're issue.

I have learned how to tune the boost maps in a different way than most and this just about eliminates boost spikes. I have my aero at stage 3+ level not spiking at all, it just locks in at 18psi or so for a while and then after the torque peak, it climbs up to 23-24psi and then fades off in the upper rpm limit.

6psi should be about right for a stage 1... Give it 100-150 miles and see if it settles down. There is negative boost adaptation and the ecu will learn from hitting fuel cut and bring the boost down a little.

John
07-24-2008 08:21 PM
94CSE How do you add a helper spring? Pictures or diagram?

So I swapped my BPV with a spare I had. The original (and the one on my 96) was mounted so the vacuum nipple was opposite the connection to the intake pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold, and the perpendicular connection goes to the intake pipe to the turbo.

I mounted it the other way so the vacuum connection is opposite the fitting on the intake to turbo pipe. It seemed to make more sense that way because if it's the other way the pressure under boost in the pipe from the intercooler to intake manifold won't force the valve open if the spring isn't strong enough to keep it shut.

Which way is it supposed to go?

I went to my brother-in-law's after I did the change and it was hitting the overboost cutoff again. Like it needed to go through the adaptation process again (actually, it hadn't hit the overboost cutoff since putting in the T7 valve and upgraded ECU). It hit the pin on my 20psi calibrated gauge. Once it came back down it seemed to settle about 16psi. On my way home with some adaptation runs it seemed to get better. Still seeing quite a boost spike.

Base boost is around 6psi according to my guage.

(sorry for the threadjack)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
I have been running helper springs on all my staged tunes since day one. I figured why spend 180 bucks on a forge unit that has a stiffer spring when you can just add a helper spring for 5 bucks and its totally adjustable. You just make the spring shorter or longer to adjust base boost and this allows the actuator to have full travel and if you shorten the rod, you shorten the travel and it cannot open the waste gate flapper all the way to dump boost if need be.

Advance auto has them 4 in a clear pack and are brake pedal return springs. You cut it so you have to stretch it about 1/4" and that will give you about 6-7psi base boost.

John
07-24-2008 06:42 PM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
Hey John, nice to see you're enjoying the work that the guys did!

When you can, it'd be great for you to post-up some of those files over on ECUProject so others can benefit from your knowledge.
I have passed around quite a few tunes with the Finish guys and our buddy in the Netherlands. I would not object to you having those tunes.

I should post up some of the current work were the boost comes up to around 18psi and holds until after the torque spike and then climbs on up for a little while and then fades on back down.

The thing is there are so many versions of it with tdo4-5cm2, 6cm2 and the 18t I just did and some are 3 bar map sensor, some guys want to stay stock map sensor, then some want the 3.8 fpr with green giants and some want to run the 3.0 bar fpr. I must have 12 tunes just for all the combinations...

Some want second gear to boil the tires, some want the gradual boost increase and the list just keeps building.

John
07-24-2008 06:35 PM
JZW I know, I thought about you after I wrote it and about all our arguments and I have to say that although my mail-box tunes did ok, there is nothing like sitting down in the actual car and tuning the sw to match that car's hw.

Each car is a little different and although the sw will adapt some, I have to admit the best way is to actually tune each car individually.

Plus, I have had quite a few people ask for much less of a torque or boost spike and I am working on trying to get that to be as smooth as possible and not hammer the gear-box all at once and just try to bring it up a little later in the rpm.

John
07-24-2008 05:50 PM
daveship
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Yes, I have about 7 cars tuned now and they are running great, I have tuned my own car for 35% E85, out of injector now and have re-tuned a stage 5 maptun tune that had some lean spots and some other issues.

Its best to custom tune as we can set the boost up how you like and actually see what the a/f is doing with the wide-band and listen for knock.

Let me know when you get back in town and we can meet up and do a little fine tuning.

John

Its nice to see that you have finally realized that custom tuning is the way to go rather than those mailbox tunes you use to love.

Good Job,
Dave
07-24-2008 03:34 PM
Drew in Houston Hey John, nice to see you're enjoying the work that the guys did!

When you can, it'd be great for you to post-up some of those files over on ECUProject so others can benefit from your knowledge.
07-24-2008 11:15 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by squarl View Post
How much do you charge? :lendostar:

hehe

how do you have a portable a/f set up? do you just use the stock 02 spot? Iím confused.. and curious.
Cheap Pm me if interested... I have the innovate portable wide-band air fuel kit and it has its own o2 sensor that you plug into the rear o2 sensor hole or into an extra bung and then the cable in ran into the cabin and the power is received from the cigarette lighter hole and that runs the wide band lm-1 hand held box that has recording available. You can go out and drive it and watch it and then you can record the time and plug it up to you're computer and look at the a/f for the entire run so you get idle a/f, wot pulls and the entire session.

John
07-24-2008 11:10 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94CSE View Post
I'll have to check the bpv (hooter valve, hah, I just said hooter!), it's the one that was on the car when I got it. It doesn't have TCS. Is there a place to get a new wastegate actuator? All I see are aftermarket fancy ones that are more than I want to spend.

I may just need more adaptation time, I just installed the new ECU and T7 valve (brand new from eEuroparts) on Tuesday.
I have been running helper springs on all my staged tunes since day one. I figured why spend 180 bucks on a forge unit that has a stiffer spring when you can just add a helper spring for 5 bucks and its totally adjustable. You just make the spring shorter or longer to adjust base boost and this allows the actuator to have full travel and if you shorten the rod, you shorten the travel and it cannot open the waste gate flapper all the way to dump boost if need be.

Advance auto has them 4 in a clear pack and are brake pedal return springs. You cut it so you have to stretch it about 1/4" and that will give you about 6-7psi base boost.

John
07-24-2008 06:55 AM
94CSE I'll have to check the bpv (hooter valve, hah, I just said hooter!), it's the one that was on the car when I got it. It doesn't have TCS. Is there a place to get a new wastegate actuator? All I see are aftermarket fancy ones that are more than I want to spend.

I may just need more adaptation time, I just installed the new ECU and T7 valve (brand new from eEuroparts) on Tuesday.
07-24-2008 06:52 AM
squarl How much do you charge? :lendostar:

hehe

how do you have a portable a/f set up? do you just use the stock 02 spot? I’m confused.. and curious.
07-24-2008 06:15 AM
JZW Yes, I have about 7 cars tuned now and they are running great, I have tuned my own car for 35% E85, out of injector now and have re-tuned a stage 5 maptun tune that had some lean spots and some other issues.

Its best to custom tune as we can set the boost up how you like and actually see what the a/f is doing with the wide-band and listen for knock.

Let me know when you get back in town and we can meet up and do a little fine tuning.

John
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