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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-05-2008 03:15 PM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Maybe its just a typo, but in the middle of paragraph he states 40hx will over-power and outspool the 60-1 turbo every time.

This borg warner 256 series the guy I know is a small turbine housing, a t3 55ar...
I've been on that site a few times and there are a couple typos. There should be a 40 on there somewhere, though.
11-05-2008 01:08 PM
JZW Maybe its just a typo, but in the middle of paragraph he states 40hx will over-power and outspool the 60-1 turbo every time.

This borg warner 256 series the guy I know is a small turbine housing, a t3 55ar...
11-05-2008 11:52 AM
Vigge
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Yea, it looks like this is the super 40 available in t3 housing for 950,
hhmmm

http://www.timsturbos.com/HX35_DSM.html
I see nothing of a hx40_super behind the link you posted...
11-05-2008 11:44 AM
Vigge
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
A guy here at work has a 256 series turbo on his eagle talin awd car. Its supposed to be good for 550whp and he has full boost by 3500-3700rpm up here in Denver??? He is spooling up much faster than me and has the potential to make more whp than my set-up.

He talks highly of them and I am curious if I should look into those turbos as well as a holset,

John
when somebody "talks" does he have reference from something else or just what he has now?

The 256 has a 56mm compressor inducer wheel and
according to comp.map flows 58lb/min max with over 3bar PR
http://www.turbo-kits.com/images/s256_comp_map.jpg
for "full SAE corrected at altitude" 550whp I can see producing, but at sealevel could be too much to ask from it. For reference the 40super in run in mine straches to 75lb/min
The H1E-series holset with 56mm inducer is quit near the 256, the HX35 somewhat below in terms of flow.
Where it will spool depens naturally on the other HW as seen from just the manifold and also on how the turbine size has been dimensioned, i.e. choose evertying to be tight an dyou do get spool but to then get the maxed out whp can be an another story.

Give it a try if you can find one, I sure it will be a better working combo than the 3076 you have now.
11-05-2008 11:40 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge View Post
a tbo is just one component in the "sea" of da engine and if you look around people drive fast with garretts, IHI's, KKK's Holset aso, but on the other side you will find also non working applications from them all. I picked my turbo because it knew what it could give me and I'am far better off with it than with an another brand which I have no real examples of and only a "hear say reference" from a applicaiton which is miles away from my own is available. In other word lifting a "turbo" as brand above others beased on hearings is just good as saying that a "ball bearing" turbo is the key to fast and low spool as what the case recently on this board was and I was about the only "idiot" dared to say somthing else. Now it seems that "holset" is the word of the day, and just about every "anchor weight" is worth the invesment as long as the word holset is stamped to the side of it. Sad part is that many who speak for a brand or a product usually dont have any first hand knowlegde of the parts the promote and once an item is lifted "on the stand" it must be good since everybody is speakin for it.

So no, I not stubbern that a holset is a must have tbo there are many othe options from switcher, borg etc which work good as well, but in then end there are so many variations that the risk of "picking" wrong increases if you nothing more than a "hear say" of a brand that it good, if you know what I mean.

Yea, it looks like this is the super 40 available in t3 housing for 950,
hhmmm

http://www.timsturbos.com/HX35_DSM.html
11-05-2008 10:54 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineSaab View Post
John you have to get that tq spike out of it then the clutch will hold.
Its done now, it slips at half throttle in third gear now and I have lowered the boost all the way down to 23psi and it still slips... She has bit the dust

I just picked up a new slave, curly-cue hard pipe connector, have the new spec stage 3+ and two qts of new tranny fluid. I have the spec flywheel insert and some new valvoline brake fluid.

Looks like the tranny will be dropped for the 6th time this year

I expect the 3+ to hold this time.... I will give it a health bed in period....

John
11-05-2008 10:51 AM
JZW
Quote:
Originally Posted by comtrang View Post
The Borg Warner turbo's are insane. They look ridiculous sitting under the hood of a Civic. Don't expect to spool it up anytime before any of our current rev limits, though .
A guy here at work has a 256 series turbo on his eagle talin awd car. Its supposed to be good for 550whp and he has full boost by 3500-3700rpm up here in Denver??? He is spooling up much faster than me and has the potential to make more whp than my set-up.

He talks highly of them and I am curious if I should look into those turbos as well as a holset,

John
11-05-2008 10:22 AM
Vigge
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post

I have been hearing great things about these borg warner turbos, that they are actually better than the holsets, anyone there tried these?

John
a tbo is just one component in the "sea" of da engine and if you look around people drive fast with garretts, IHI's, KKK's Holset aso, but on the other side you will find also non working applications from them all. I picked my turbo because it knew what it could give me and I'am far better off with it than with an another brand which I have no real examples of and only a "hear say reference" from a applicaiton which is miles away from my own is available. In other word lifting a "turbo" as brand above others beased on hearings is just good as saying that a "ball bearing" turbo is the key to fast and low spool as what the case recently on this board was and I was about the only "idiot" dared to say somthing else. Now it seems that "holset" is the word of the day, and just about every "anchor weight" is worth the invesment as long as the word holset is stamped to the side of it. Sad part is that many who speak for a brand or a product usually dont have any first hand knowlegde of the parts the promote and once an item is lifted "on the stand" it must be good since everybody is speakin for it.

So no, I not stubbern that a holset is a must have tbo there are many othe options from switcher, borg etc which work good as well, but in then end there are so many variations that the risk of "picking" wrong increases if you nothing more than a "hear say" of a brand that it good, if you know what I mean.
11-05-2008 09:58 AM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
I am right on the edge of a 12 and with my clutch giving out after 2 passes, probably could have knocked one off last season. The slicks is my issue, I have to get a set of rims that a slick will work with and that will be a big step in the right direction.

I like to dream! That is what keeps me going and excited about the racing stuff.

I would be happy to get some 12's at my elevation, once thats done, will think about moving on to low 12's or high 11's...

I have been hearing great things about these borg warner turbos, that they are actually better than the holsets, anyone there tried these?

John
The Borg Warner turbo's are insane. They look ridiculous sitting under the hood of a Civic. Don't expect to spool it up anytime before any of our current rev limits, though .
11-05-2008 08:23 AM
GenuineSaab John you have to get that tq spike out of it then the clutch will hold.
11-05-2008 08:16 AM
JZW I am right on the edge of a 12 and with my clutch giving out after 2 passes, probably could have knocked one off last season. The slicks is my issue, I have to get a set of rims that a slick will work with and that will be a big step in the right direction.

I like to dream! That is what keeps me going and excited about the racing stuff.

I would be happy to get some 12's at my elevation, once thats done, will think about moving on to low 12's or high 11's...

I have been hearing great things about these borg warner turbos, that they are actually better than the holsets, anyone there tried these?

John
11-04-2008 09:59 AM
Vigge
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Not if the weight is right! A 800# car with 270bhp runs a 8.36 1/4 mile

1200# car with 270bhp runs a 9.5 1/4 mile

1600# car with 270bhp runs a 10.5 1/4 mile


The big Honda shop around here gets their little crx's to 1400-1600# and that is why with 300bhp, they can run 9's and 10's.. It really sux, I have double the hp and cant get out of the low 13's...

That is all over, I am going to buy a 97 ng and gut her like a fish and make it light, light, light..... Then we will see what 400whp does on a 2300# saab...

2300# and 450bhp is a 10.003

John
Dont let the strip wait John, get on with the building and driving
It all adds up on paper but achieving it is an another story. Based on results from sweden
to 12s you can get it with just power basic chassis mods and slicks and from there on is where the "game" becomes difficult and if you look into guys like Marko, Johan, Gulsaab who have been pounding the strip for a good while now with cars that what be stripped to bone, chassis heavily modded, big slicks and power/mapping on a good level times from low 11 to high 11. Nordics (calle, the youngest son) drove a corsa, 917kg (2000lb) Opel corsa this year and in roberts hands went 11.02/210km/h with a saab B234 pushing with close to 500hp/500Nm.

So dont get me wrong brake the 12 first, will be plenty goal for you and once done try a low 11 before you "dream" of a low ten...
11-04-2008 09:35 AM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZW View Post
Not if the weight is right! A 800# car with 270bhp runs a 8.36 1/4 mile

1200# car with 270bhp runs a 9.5 1/4 mile

1600# car with 270bhp runs a 10.5 1/4 mile


The big Honda shop around here gets their little crx's to 1400-1600# and that is why with 300bhp, they can run 9's and 10's.. It really sux, I have double the hp and cant get out of the low 13's...

That is all over, I am going to buy a 97 ng and gut her like a fish and make it light, light, light..... Then we will see what 400whp does on a 2300# saab...

2300# and 450bhp is a 10.003

John
I swear SAAB's seem to be excluded from that case. A friend of mine who now has a pretty popular shop back in KC recently parted out his Civic hatch that probably weighed that but he put down 800 at the wheels to run a [email protected] It had full race suspension, parachute, the works. Tons of money to make it to that level. Borg Warner S372 ftw .
Before that he had a 92 four door! Those don't weigh as little as hatches and I don't remember what he put down on that but it ran low 10's.
If I could get a 155mph trap, then I wouldn't give a damn if I were running a 9 or a 13.
11-04-2008 07:22 AM
JZW Not if the weight is right! A 800# car with 270bhp runs a 8.36 1/4 mile

1200# car with 270bhp runs a 9.5 1/4 mile

1600# car with 270bhp runs a 10.5 1/4 mile


The big Honda shop around here gets their little crx's to 1400-1600# and that is why with 300bhp, they can run 9's and 10's.. It really sux, I have double the hp and cant get out of the low 13's...

That is all over, I am going to buy a 97 ng and gut her like a fish and make it light, light, light..... Then we will see what 400whp does on a 2300# saab...

2300# and 450bhp is a 10.003

John
11-03-2008 11:40 PM
Moreboost haha duh, thats you comtrang, sorry its almost 4am, time for sleep

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by comtrang View Post
Haha yeah, forgot to mention that something screwy happened and it changed everyone's 1/4 time to [email protected] MPH they put. It was actually 14.54.

okay that makes more sense, i was gona say, 240whp putting down below 10 seconds impossible
11-03-2008 11:40 PM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moreboost View Post
WOW look at that 97 900 240whp 2.467 60' [email protected] 1/4
Haha yeah, forgot to mention that something screwy happened and it changed everyone's 1/4 time to [email protected] MPH they put. It was actually 14.54.
11-03-2008 11:39 PM
Moreboost
Quote:
Originally Posted by comtrang View Post
So, almost like a timeslips database one some forums, but with dyno sheets..sounds good to me.
WOW look at that 97 900 240whp 2.467 60' [email protected] 1/4
11-03-2008 11:31 PM
Vigge In addition to the previous post the shape of the acceration curve is the same as tq curve in relation to rpm, scaled with total gear ratio (the lower the gear the higher the acceleration) and substactred with losses (air resistance at higher speeds).
11-03-2008 11:12 PM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmer View Post
Hmm, I just had an idea for a thread, I'll see what you all think.

Kinda like this one was supposed to be, but with minimal posting.

How about a "master list" of Saabs that have been on a dyno regardless of model, with the dyno sheet and mod list only.

It could be like a catalog.

I could update the first post with the TSL members name, and power numbers. Then you could scroll to find the mods and whatnot.

Thoughts?
So, almost like a timeslips database one some forums, but with dyno sheets..sounds good to me.
11-03-2008 11:04 PM
comtrang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmer View Post
emailbox.

It's a great tune, it really is.

I'm going to get a wideband over the winter along with a few other things so I can self-tune for my holset.

I just found out that I will *not* be needing a pressure plate for the clutch setup I have so that frees up a good bit of money.

I will not be doing cams though, I don't have $$$ for those.

Not that I'm not happy with the tune I have, I just wanna DIY, ya know?
Ah I see..I don't even have the minimum equipment to even try a T5suite. Too busy with school, unfortunately. Planning on getting a wideband this winter, too, after I order my headers with Vigge and save up more $$$.
I also won't be doing cams for my 2.0, at least for now. Wanna see how far I make it with the 12cm HX35 before I do that. Starting to think it will be too small to make any 'real' power, though.
DIY tune. More power to you.
In the meantime, I'll just be cutting John a check or making a visit to Nick, since he's in Springfield, MO and I'll be back home in Kansas City.
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