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Old 05-01-2006, 01:34 PM   #1
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Octane Booster / Toluene

Here's the dilemma I am in. My job currently allows me to fill up my tank at our 1500 gal. tank in our job yard. Well it is 87 octane, which is fine for my truck, but a little on the "weak" side for the Saab. So this prompted my research in to "Octane Boosters," which seem to have a detrimental effect on cats, brass, etc. I did come across a couple of references to toluene (Paint Thinner), being used as an additive to increase the octane rating of fuel, aka Rocket Fuel, or Home Brew. Believe me I was a bit skeptical as the word "Home Brew" invokes images of hippies and meth dealers, or at least a cauldron. But I have found more and more race enthusiasts and such using toluene. But I would cry if I fucked up my car in anyway....

Here's a link that gives a good outline: http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

Any input? I tried getting my boss to give me a chevron card, using the point that commuting in my car would "save the company money." No such luck. His response "doesn't the saab have a knock sensor?" He drives a newer porshe boxster. I doubt that gets filled up with regular unleaded...

Ok, Flame on.
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Old 05-01-2006, 01:59 PM   #2
 
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Yanos, what kind of a car do you have? And what kinds of performance upgrades are you planning?

87 is fine for a non-turbo, and even for a stock turbo car....
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:24 PM   #3
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THis is very interesting. Im going to try this on my dads new lexus its still under warenty haha
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:25 PM   #4
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Its a Viggen, and I think 91 is what is required, but 89 is likely fine in cooler weather and driven softly.
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:27 PM   #5
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Well I have a 01' Viggen with a stage 3 Nordic kit.

I am not saying the car will not operate fine with 87, but I am trying to find the logic in why I upgraded my car for more power if I am not regularly enjoying the benefits. Now maybe some one can show some numbers with respect to differences in hp/tq and octane rating. Maybe I am making a big fuss about nothing. ?
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:02 PM   #6
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i have read about the toulene boosting too. Heard good things about it.
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:06 PM   #7
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Ok someone go do a dino run, Get on the dino with no gas, run 1/2 gallon though the car to clean out the car so 93 is in the car, then put 1 gallon of 93 in the car, do your dino run... do 2 tests... burn off the gas, then, fill with 1/2 gallon of 87, burn it off, then put in 1 gallon of 87 and do dino again. Im actually very currious what, if any differnce would occur..

And just something to add, that fuel additives that claim they are octaine boosters you can buy, do they work, or are they a gimic, becuase i tired one once, and i could knotice a differnce... watch the stuff i used be a plecibo, but for real i was gunning it right after i put it in and i though i could feel a huge difference.
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:33 PM   #8
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As far as octane boosters go, you can check out this link: http://www.sportscarforums.com/print...oice-3257.html

They test a few of the cheap alternatives, and shows the expected results.
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Old 05-01-2006, 04:02 PM   #9
 
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A modded Viggen???

I don't mean to sound like The Voice of Doom, but with that level of modification, T5 or T7, you should be running 93 octane at sea level (91 at altitude...). Always. Everyday. Twice on Sunday.

Nearly every tuner derives some of the HP gain by octane optimization -- essentially turning off the ability of the ECU to compensate for varying grades of gasoline. I'd be surprised if Nordic didn't do this (you can email Magnus or Rolf to confirm...or Nick might know of the top of head)

Toluene is what's commonly used in the commercial octane boosters, so it's safe to use in the relatively low concentrations needed for you. I think there are some common formulas to calculate how much to add to X gallons of 89 octane to get a tank of 93...

Good luck!
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Old 05-01-2006, 04:12 PM   #10
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you might want to search, i think somebody brought this up a while ago too. or maybe i am wrong.... but i thought the conclusion was that it could work, so somebody needed to try it.
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:26 PM   #11
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Mike: Thanks for the input. My point being is I have access to free 87 octane gas. I would like to optimize this for the viggen. So I was hoping to make this scenario work. If there is no feasable means of accomplishing these goals, I'll choose to commute with my truck most of the time
Gas is too expensive right now to pass up on a paid commute.

A Side Note, My nordic ECU goes in tommorow !!!!!
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:46 PM   #12
 
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Then it's definitely worth a try...

Figure out the toluene needed to bring the 87 to a 93 and you'll be golden.

But seriously...don't run the Stage 3 AT ALL with 87 octane. You don't have anywhere near the knock protection you'll need, and you definitely don't want to take a chance.....
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:58 PM   #13
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Thanks Mike.
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Old 05-01-2006, 07:58 PM   #14
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yes please do the calculation and give it a try. I heard of a guy wiht an aircooled porsche who had great success using toulene
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:31 AM   #15
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So get this. I spoke with one of our painting subcontractors about toluene. Apparently to buy this product in bulk, aka 5 gallon buckets, you need to go through a background check due to the fact that it is used in the production of meth. And to get approved for large quantity usage you must explain what your use is and for some reason I don't think they are going to like the idea of my use....

And if you were to start buying large quantities of the 1 gallon product, you will be put on the governments watch list. He explained to me that they went from using 3 gallons in one month to 9 gallons the next month and they had DEA knocking on their door.

Back to the drawing board!

p.s. And from my calcs it would take three gallons of toluene per tank to raise the ocatane rating to 91.79 (about $12 per tank)
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:47 AM   #16
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i always joke around about how I am going to make meth, the few times I have been out shopping with my Mother, and she has to ask for sudafed, becasue its not just on the shelves anymore.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:52 AM   #17
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wait, this thread wasnt about making meth?
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Old 05-07-2006, 07:33 PM   #18
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Personally i use denatured alcohol in my meth batches. i find it works best as a solvent. I put the toluene in my ride thoug, about 1 gallon per tank 16 odd gallons.
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Old 05-07-2006, 07:53 PM   #19
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I wouldn't feel comforatble puting that much of a substance that is NOT gas into my gas tank!
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:40 PM   #20
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yeah, i thought you were only supposed to use a few ounces per 20 gallons or so......

i would never put anything that isnt gas into my car, come to think of it! unless its injector cleaner or whatnot.
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