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Old 09-06-2015, 07:12 PM   #1
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Unhappy F25/F35: 5th Gear Puller?

What are you guys using to pull the 5th gear in these transmissions?

The factory tools, 8996084 Puller, Wheel Hub, and 8792566 Puller, look like this:


Back in the day Nick talked about chipping 5th gear teeth, and Harvey mentioned to heat them first in one of the transmission threads and said they're Loctite-ed from factory..

I made a tool out of standard puller, ground down to fit with some bi-metal saw blade metal TIG welded on to fit and spread the force off the teeth and onto body. It seemed like a good idea, and worked well for the 5th gear syncromesh hub, but then the jaw broke and I wrecked the 5th gear.

I have some other transmissions here to salvage a new gear, but not if I can't get them off without breaking teeth. Uggh.

There's gotta be a generic tool that fits? I have the J-43945 kit, which I thought was the Saturn version for working on the the Ion Red Line's that had the MU3 F35, and it has most everything else but I can't find these Saab tools anywhere.

Any help/advice/experience appreciated.
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Old 09-06-2015, 07:26 PM   #2
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Maybe to help someone in the future, here are the tools listed in WIS that aren't in the Saturn LS J-43945 kit:


The Puller, 150mm arms, #8791303 are included but not numbered separately, otherwise, here are the tools that are included in the kit, which consists of 4 hard plastic boxes:

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Old 09-06-2015, 07:35 PM   #3
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Tools in WIS compared to tools in the Saturn LS J-43945 Kit:

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Old 09-06-2015, 08:14 PM   #4
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Okay well, I may have answered my own question courtesy of the folks over at CobaltSSnet.

Rather than try to pull the gear, it looks like the newer approach with this kit is to remove some external bolts/retainers and push the shaft through lifting the whole case off. Makes sense, will try it tomorrow; too bad I broke a gear before it occurred to me to look outside WIS. Darnit.



http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/how-g...ission-286806/
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Old 09-08-2015, 06:09 AM   #5
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Never had to do this. You building a trans?
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:21 AM   #6
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drew if I had seen this from when you posted it I would told you just to use the case to pull it (like the cobalt guys have said)
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:50 AM   #7
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drew if I had seen this from when you posted it I would told you just to use the case to pull it (like the cobalt guys have said)
Ooh, yeah, that would have helped for sure. I did it and it worked. It cracked when I went far enough, thought maybe I actually broke something but it went okay. So far the worst part other than breaking my puller and cracking the edge on the 5th gear was when one of the reverse synro leaf springs shot out. I found it though!
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:02 PM   #8
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Never had to do this. You building a trans?
Yep! I'm building myself a new daily driver Viggen for commuting with a 3.82 final drive LSD. I've been debating about making a build thread.

Lately I've been working some modeling and simulation maintenance and reliability efforts at work and it inspired me to try a reset/rebuild/turnaround (whatever language you choose for whatever industry) on this 3-door Viggen that I have here. Probably I'll make a build thread... I'm going to have the newest 190k mile Viggen on the planet at the end of it.
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Old 09-08-2015, 02:10 PM   #9
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Build thread would be great
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:56 AM   #10
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So, pulling with the case worked on the Viggen transmission. Now I'm disassembling the Cobalt SS transmission, and it is not working. It's just taking way too much force on the puller and it's not coming. In fact, it bent the saddle stud, I bent it back, bent it again, I bent it back, and then of course it snapped off.

I'm going to drill/tap for a new stud, that's not a big deal, but do I just need more heat?

Christos, ever have this happen? Like 5th gear just won't pull off? I tried regular old propane torch on the gear, do I need more heat like from a oxy/acetylene rosebud? Or??
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:37 PM   #11
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You're probably way past this by now... but MAPP gas is quite a bit hotter than old propane (condolences to Hank Hill) if you're actually using old school propane. I seem to recall that breaking red loctite requires getting the part to 400 degrees in temp, but you can check that out at the locite site in the specs if you care. You could concentrate on heating the gear vs. the shaft to help expand it, but the shaft is going to suck a lot of heat out of the gear as you go.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:08 AM   #12
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Nope, not past it yet.

This CobaltSS case was in an accident, the bellhousing is broken, and I wonder if maybe that somehow made this gear impossible to pull off?

I didn't know there was a second P on there, MAPP! Anyway, I borrowed my Dad's little MAPP setup and heated it hotter than 400(?) That's good info to have, thank you. I'll try heating it again... after I repair one of my 'new' studs. This time I used some real metric shims so that the saddles tightened up when they were rotated in the right direction for fitting the jaws. I just don't think they ever intended to have to pull that hard to get the gear off.

The case threads are the same as our exhaust manifold threads, M8x1.25, so I used a long re-claimed exhaust manifold stud, and extended the threads onto the unthreaded part of the stud then cut it to length. I cycled it a few times while heating the gear and changed positions because there's just a tiny bit of misalignment, and it eventually broke where the new threads started on the stud when I tightened it against the shim.

If heating again doesn't work, I think I'm going to have to ruin something to get it apart. I don't care about the case, but I don't know how to cut it without contaminating everything inside with chips; it crossed my mind to take it in the backyard and fracture it with my maul lol. I don't care a whole lot about the gear either, it'd be nice to save and and re-use this one, but I have some other boxes here too. Right now I'm leaning towards trying to cut the shaft with a hacksaw blade, just under the 5th gear, and then if lucky, use a hydraulic press to save/reuse the gear.

If I get a chance to work on it today I'll snap a picture or two.

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You're probably way past this by now... but MAPP gas is quite a bit hotter than old propane (condolences to Hank Hill) if you're actually using old school propane. I seem to recall that breaking red loctite requires getting the part to 400 degrees in temp, but you can check that out at the locite site in the specs if you care. You could concentrate on heating the gear vs. the shaft to help expand it, but the shaft is going to suck a lot of heat out of the gear as you go.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:14 PM   #13
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You have to swap all the bearing races from the cobalt box to the saab case, The tapers are different on the 3-4 input shaft, pinion bearings are the same. remove or add shims to the 3-4 stack as needed to get the crush to zero with the dial indicator, under rolling torque, I just heat 5th with propane until the oil cooks away & the case is ready to pull apart at that moment, torque the crush sleeve to zero lift while rotating the assembly a bunch of times, use propane on the internal torques as well, Same as 5th, When the oil cooks away, The torques bolts holding the diff cover plate down will come out without ruining the bolts.
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