Green 99 engine-out work - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab Vintage Forum > General 99 and 90 Posts and Information

General 99 and 90 Posts and Information Please post general and technical information pertaining to the Saab 99 and 90.

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2007, 11:45 PM   #1
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Green 99 engine-out work

Due to idler shaft/water pump failiure the engine had to come out of my Spring Green '76 99. A good time to do some work!

I had the head milled down .080" awhile ago, also the intake surface was machined. This should give it about an 11:1 compression ratio.

I thought this would be a good time to get a cam gear slotted, for several reasons. For one, the aged chain is most likely retarding my valve timing by several degrees, in addition to the cam being .080" closer to the crank with the head shaving.

I paid a local machinist $20 to slot my cam gear 10 degrees each way. It looks perfect!

So what better time to get a racing cam made up?

I called and spoke with Jack Laurence for about an hour the other day, and it helped me with my cam profile choice a lot. My final decision is very close to his 287 duration symetrical cam.

Jack uses a cam shop that doesn't do cam welding, so they take .125" off of the base circle of the cam, and shim up the tappets the same ammount. That sounded a little silly to me, when a local shop (one of the best in the country) would do a weld and grind for $125 (tax free, because I brought them a 6-pack).

So the profile I ended up with is a 287 302 asymetrical grind. My cam has the same base circle as the stock cam, so should require just slight shimming, like using a different saab camshaft. It was really a deal I couldn't pass up, but I would still highly recommend Jack's cams, it's just I really want to build a relationship with this local shop and I didn't want to shim up .125 on my lifters.

Here is the cam spec sheet for the 287 302:


I had a bit of a time sorting out cam stuff at first, I knew a lot about 'advertised' numbers but after reading this tech article on Iskenderian cam's website and after talking with the guys at delta cams I am pretty comfortable with cam specs and how they are measured.

The 287 is advertised intake valve duration (ammount in degrees it stays open) and the 302 is for exhaust. 'Advertised' numbers are often taken at .012" valve lift and sometimes at .020". However the most accurate way to measure the effecitveness of a cam, as well as the industry standard, is the angle measured when the lifter is lifted .050". If advertised numbers and .050" are confused bad things can happen. The isky cams article is really informative and I suggest everyone read it.

This cam should give the car some balls for once! The stock 244 cam was a pile of junk.

Also in the past this car has had really loose steering and a really floaty suspension. It turns out the steering rack mounts needed tightening, since it appears the rubber bushing has deteriorated over time. This bushing of course is no longer available, but i was able to sucessfully tighten down the rack really simply from under the car. With the engine removed it was odvious the rack had been sliding around in its mounts, up to about a 1/4" either way around corners. I was able to get several turns on 2 of the upper A-arm mounting bolts also. That combined with my set of old style 99 soccer balls with *brand new* 165 series tires should make it handle a lot better. I have never dirven with a skinny tire and am excited to try it out.

I plan on actually cleaning the engine bay up a bit too, and this will be my frist time cleaning an engine bay on a car that I own.

Sorry I don't have any pictures up I will get some of the car with the engine out, the wear on the idler shaft and pump shaft, cam, cam gear and my cylinder head up soon!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by saabsbreakdown; 12-10-2007 at 11:48 PM.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-11-2007, 01:02 PM   #2
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Okay so we measured the bore for the end of the water pump shaft today and also measured the brass cage that the bearing fits into in the block. They are both oversized, and I am not going to re use the block.

I have a really low mileage b-motor that already has a head on it, so I will put that engine in. I am going to put my shiny machined head on the shelf because this engine is already complete with a new head gasket less than 10,000 miles ago.

I will pull the timing cover off to put on my new adjustable cam gear and reset the tensioner. I guess I will be sticking with the stock 8.7:1 compression ratio for now!

Here are the pics I promised:









__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 02:28 PM   #3
GA
Elder
 
GA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,984
Send a message via Yahoo to GA
I've said it before, but that is an awesomely cool car.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GA is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2007, 05:04 PM   #4
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Haha. well then come buy it from me. It should be pretty quick with this cam!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 05:16 PM   #5
Elder
 
AeroDynamic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 6,912
Send a message via AIM to AeroDynamic
If you buy it I will refund your airflow kit shipping!

p.s.

That cam looks like a screamer!

FOUR PLAY! four cylinder performance.
__________________
WHATS YOUR ALTITUDE?
510whp @18psi @5600rpm's "600HP or parts on the floor"
AeroDynamic is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 06:04 PM   #6
GA
Elder
 
GA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,984
Send a message via Yahoo to GA
Quasi-hypothetically, how much?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GA is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 09:40 PM   #7
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
HIDSPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Posts: 1,850
Send a message via AIM to HIDSPG
yeah I love your car. Nice write up. I want to see some motion pictures your 99......you know like the one you did of Kaylans car! That would be sweet!
__________________
88 SPG, 08 TX Combi


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HIDSPG is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 09:46 PM   #8
Deez Nutz
Site ModeratorElder
 
Palmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cheese Country
Posts: 15,679
Send a message via AIM to Palmer
Damn, that looks like fun!
__________________
S55/LC100/KL
Palmer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2007, 10:12 PM   #9
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
I dont know. I was thinking 4000, and I had the damage estimated at 500 to fix without paint. so, 3500?

I start with boeing next year though so I sort of need the money now, and not then. I won't be selling anything come next spring.

It is a lot of fun, we ran through a case of corona today, and went through a case of heineken on sunday! I even did a bit of cleaning. It took forever.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 06:02 AM   #10
GA
Elder
 
GA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,984
Send a message via Yahoo to GA
Well, 3500 is not in this year's budget, I'm afraid. Well, it is, but it's going to the Resurrection SPG.

If I didn't already own a 99, though, I'd jump on that.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GA is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 06:25 AM   #11
Elder
 
Moonracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Meyer Iowa
Posts: 2,451
I hate to tell you what to do, but, now would be the time to switch theose heads around. Do you think you might have problems with pre-ignition with the shaved head? The price is sure right for a 99 with no rust, just no time to play right now. I agree with the others get some pics and vidio of theis beast.
Moonracer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 07:12 AM   #12
Nick Taliaferro
Elder
 
GenuineSaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Springfield, MO USA
Posts: 3,232
Send a message via MSN to GenuineSaab Send a message via Skype™ to GenuineSaab
Marty, they actually seem to like the tighter quench area. In my old 99 (that ugly GL back in the corner of the shop) I cut the head to the point that the Intake manifold water passages would not hold a gasket. I had to plug them with 3/8" pipe plugs and relocate the water for the heater to the thermostat housing. This also required clearancing the pistons for the valves. I did it in the car, took what precautions i could. Didn't expect it to last long. Lasted 4 years at WOT with a 8K rev limit. Finally broke a lifter bucket on the highway at 7500rpm. Pretty sure it was a loose valve. It had no signs of detonation when we tore it apart.

Anyway back on topic that should be a screamer. Make sure you have enough fuel now. I had to mix CIS parts to get enough fuel at high rpms.
__________________
Nicholas Taliaferro

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 E85
Viggen 439whp / 447tq 12.43 @114 on Gt2871.64, (Now 511whp Gt3076)
Nordic E85 9-3 SS Aero 320hp / 350ftlbs
GenuineSaab is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 01:14 PM   #13
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineSaab View Post
Marty, they actually seem to like the tighter quench area. In my old 99 (that ugly GL back in the corner of the shop) I cut the head to the point that the Intake manifold water passages would not hold a gasket. I had to plug them with 3/8" pipe plugs and relocate the water for the heater to the thermostat housing. This also required clearancing the pistons for the valves. I did it in the car, took what precautions i could. Didn't expect it to last long. Lasted 4 years at WOT with a 8K rev limit. Finally broke a lifter bucket on the highway at 7500rpm. Pretty sure it was a loose valve. It had no signs of detonation when we tore it apart.

Anyway back on topic that should be a screamer. Make sure you have enough fuel now. I had to mix CIS parts to get enough fuel at high rpms.
In my opinion it would take a .170" head shave to have ptv issues and that would be rotating the engine with the cam disconnected from the chain. piston to valve issues on this engine are impossible at TDC. you would have to take off a 1/2 probably.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 02:18 PM   #14
Moderator
Elder
 
DeLorean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a compound on a hill
Posts: 7,595
Send a message via AIM to DeLorean
looks like it's going well. Notice your car has the "thermal reactor" exhaust manifold... get a header on there!
DeLorean is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 02:40 PM   #15
Elder
 
IronJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,252
Nice, Delta is an awesome place. Cheep and high quality. I've been in contact with them for some custom grinds on my convertible. Good people there.

Can't wait to see how it turns out!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quote:
^ IronJoe doesn't park, he lands.
IronJoe is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2007, 03:29 PM   #16
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronJoe View Post
Nice, Delta is an awesome place. Cheep and high quality. I've been in contact with them for some custom grinds on my convertible. Good people there.

Can't wait to see how it turns out!
Did you get the grinds done yet? I'd be curious to see what profiles your looking at and also I'm a little curious about what people prefer for turbo cars.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-15-2007, 01:22 AM   #17
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Just ran the car with the new cam! I can't believe what a difference it makes. Just when you would usually want to shift, the exhaust note gets sorted out and everything quiets down and you just woosh off into the previously untouched rpms. I took 2nd gear to 60.. I don't think it would really want to go much higher than that without double springs.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-15-2007, 06:51 AM   #18
Elder
 
spgproject's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: harrisburg, PA
Posts: 3,388
Send a message via AIM to spgproject
that's awsome. sounds like a fun little car.

what kind of rpm's were you at @60 in 2nd?

i also know where you're coming from as far as cleaning the engine bay. i did that on my spg last time i had it apart....it felt strange.

and, you have good taste in beer
__________________
"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive"
-Sir William Lyons
spgproject is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-15-2007, 01:16 PM   #19
Elder
 
saabsbreakdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Posts: 2,624
Send a message via AIM to saabsbreakdown
Quote:
Originally Posted by spgproject View Post
that's awsome. sounds like a fun little car.

what kind of rpm's were you at @60 in 2nd?

i also know where you're coming from as far as cleaning the engine bay. i did that on my spg last time i had it apart....it felt strange.

and, you have good taste in beer
Yesterday during my 60 in 2nd experience i looked down to check the RPM and noticed there was a very large clock where the tach should be.

Today I put a tach in it and went out and thought I got a picture of it at 7000 rpms, but i forgot to hit save! I was so pissed.

The intake manifold is leaking coolant pretty bad, i'm still really happy with the brilliant idea to put the coolant for the heater through the manifold for no reason. This manifold could be warped so I am going to put a good used one on it with a real gasket and anaerobic sealer on both sides! hope it works. I sort of took a surface prep disc to the head to clean off the gasket. Haha. I knew it was bad but it felt so good..

Also the damn temp guage wire must have a short in it. Grr.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Car 178 - 1975 Saab 99 EMS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
saabsbreakdown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-16-2007, 04:15 PM   #20
Avid TSL User
 
Ajax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 200
Send a message via MSN to Ajax
Wow, this whole project sounds awesome! Ive been toying with the idea of getting a high-end MSS street cam for my 99 - has anyone used one before? If so, what are they like? Or would it be better to get a custom grind done down here in Aus?

Whats the blue car in the corner of your garage?
__________________
Cheers,
Ajax

I Come From The Land Of Plenty.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'72 2L 99: Project
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ajax is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.