Timing Chain Replacement - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab 9-5 '98-'09 Forum > General 9-5 Posts and Information

General 9-5 Posts and Information Please post general topics pertaining to the 9-5.

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2014, 07:21 AM  
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
sallythesaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Snowshoe, WV
Posts: 490
Timing Chain Replacement

Hey there guys!

Had a couple questions. I'm thinking about replacing the timing chain in my 02 aero wagon this spring. Along with some other gaskets and seals. I really like the car and think I might be worth it at this point. When I start the car cold it definitely starts with a noticeable rattle but then goes away once warmed up.

I was thinking it was a broken guide or weak tensioner. I'm also leaking oil around crank seal or possibly near oil sensor. I haven't had much time this winter to inspect thoroughly.

Do you have to pull engine to attempt timing chain fix? I've heard of guys rolling chains on while engine is in car, but if a guide is broken you have to pull.

What type of tool do you use to hold flywheel or cams at TDC? I've only done timing chain replacement on ecotec(03+ 9-3ss), pretty straight forward.

Any good write-ups/threads?

Thanks!
__________________
2004 9-3 SS Linear (SOLD)
2003 9-3 SS Linear
2002 9-5 Aero Wagon
2002 9-3 SE
2002 9-3 SE Vert
1999 LB 9-3 Viggen
1996 9000 CSE (RIP)
1990 9000 S (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sallythesaab is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-07-2014, 08:35 AM  
Elder
 
Drew in Houston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA/MD
Posts: 2,430
How many more miles do you want to run it?

If you have the tools and the time, my vote is to buy the full timing replacement kit, pull the engine, and replace things on the stand where you really do a good job of inspecting, cleaning, torquing properly, cleaning surfaces and re-sealing. There's also the issue mixing new parts with old. A new chain on an old sprocket isn't as good, won't last as long as a new chain on a new sprocket. There's also the question of running an endless chain vs. one with a master link.

Also the guides. The timing kit comes with all new guides. The last B235r that I took apart had a cracked/broken-through guide that was still in place, and that engine ran quietly (had 102k miles).

I'm sure craig g96nt will post up some dumb shit about how timing chains with master links are the greatest thing ever invented and how he personally knows of thousands of times where they work super awesome, but my opinion is that I wouldn't mess with a half-way job lol. But, it all depends how long you want to expect it to last and how good you hope to seal things, etc. and much effort you feel like putting into it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sallythesaab View Post
Hey there guys!

Had a couple questions. I'm thinking about replacing the timing chain in my 02 aero wagon this spring. Along with some other gaskets and seals. I really like the car and think I might be worth it at this point. When I start the car cold it definitely starts with a noticeable rattle but then goes away once warmed up.

I was thinking it was a broken guide or weak tensioner. I'm also leaking oil around crank seal or possibly near oil sensor. I haven't had much time this winter to inspect thoroughly.

Do you have to pull engine to attempt timing chain fix? I've heard of guys rolling chains on while engine is in car, but if a guide is broken you have to pull.

What type of tool do you use to hold flywheel or cams at TDC? I've only done timing chain replacement on ecotec(03+ 9-3ss), pretty straight forward.

Any good write-ups/threads?

Thanks!
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Drew in Houston; 03-07-2014 at 08:46 AM.
Drew in Houston is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2014, 09:05 AM  
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,021
The noise might also be the balance shaft chain.

It's possible to get the timing cover off with the engine in the car and do both, but it's really tight against the right side impact apron.

There's a spec posted here somewhere for how far the plunger on the timing chain tensioner can be extended and have it still be in spec. You remove the 13mm bolt/plug, spring and plunger, then remove the tensioner and see how far the ratchet is extended, that'll tell you if everything is worn enough that the timing chain is making slapping / clattering sounds. If the timing chain tensioner is still nice and tight then there's a good chance it's the balance shaft parts.

Unless one has been replaced already they usually wear out at about the same rate.

There's nothing wrong with a roll-in chain with a master link, but if it's loose enough to make noise then the guides and sprockets are likely worn out enough that a new chain may still make noise, though it's cheap and easy enough to do without removing basically anything but the timing cover and right side wheel well trim that it could save some headache.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2014, 11:04 AM  
Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 2,522
Send a message via ICQ to g96nt Send a message via AIM to g96nt Send a message via MSN to g96nt Send a message via Yahoo to g96nt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew in Houston View Post
I'm sure craig g96nt will post up some dumb shit about how timing chains with master links are the greatest thing ever invented and how he personally knows of thousands of times where they work super awesome, but my opinion is that I wouldn't mess with a half-way job lol. But, it all depends how long you want to expect it to last and how good you hope to seal things, etc. and much effort you feel like putting into it.

Actualy, douche, I was going to agree with you.
Since it's a spare car, drop the engine/subframe and get all the crap done at once. Replace the guides, replace the sprockets, replace the tensioner, replace the seals, and replace the chain. replace the subframe busings, and whatever else you want. (use a chain with a master link if you get a good price, like I did)

If it's out, and you have the time/$$, replace the clutch/slave cyl, too!
__________________
Craig R.
2008 9-5 Aero-1995 900T 'vert
g96nt is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2014, 11:06 AM  
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
bergie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Amherst, NH
Posts: 1,453
^you both nailed it.

The infamous cold start chain rattle. I hate it, my new 04 aero with 105k is doing it too. Its a good sign of previous owners oil change intervales too.

I would definitely get in there and replace everything. I have had this done once before on one of my previous 235Rs and it was super quiet after this.
__________________
Current: 1999 LB 9-3 Viggen, 2002 SG 9-3 Viggen Vert, 2003 Cosmic 9-5 Aero
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bergie; 03-07-2014 at 11:08 AM.
bergie is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2014, 11:07 AM  
Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 2,522
Send a message via ICQ to g96nt Send a message via AIM to g96nt Send a message via MSN to g96nt Send a message via Yahoo to g96nt
oh!
re: balance shafts. That's up to you.
I removed the chain, and trimmed the guide so everything was "happy".
Chains are pretty reliable, so there's no *need* to remove them like DSMs do, but if you're looking for a few HP, it's not a bad way. I hardly noticed a difference with the chain pulled. Some people would say you *need* it. Personally, I'm happy to see it go.
__________________
Craig R.
2008 9-5 Aero-1995 900T 'vert
g96nt is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2014, 07:43 AM  
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
sallythesaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Snowshoe, WV
Posts: 490
Good input guys! I think I'm going to pull the engine and just do it that way. I've got the time and an extra set of wheels to drive in the mean time. Timing kits seem reasonably priced on eeuro and thesaabsite.

Craig, I know you mentioned drop the engine........can you pull the engine from top? My only option would be pulling it from the top.

Also, are there any particular tools for holding TDC on these engines? Feel like every engine has a little trick.

Thanks
__________________
2004 9-3 SS Linear (SOLD)
2003 9-3 SS Linear
2002 9-5 Aero Wagon
2002 9-3 SE
2002 9-3 SE Vert
1999 LB 9-3 Viggen
1996 9000 CSE (RIP)
1990 9000 S (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sallythesaab is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2014, 09:36 AM  
Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 2,522
Send a message via ICQ to g96nt Send a message via AIM to g96nt Send a message via MSN to g96nt Send a message via Yahoo to g96nt
Anything can be done with enough persistance.
You'd have to ask someone else, but I assume you could remove the engine mounts, and with enough gusto, (and a leveler) tip the trans down, and pull it out chain-first.
Or... lower the subframe, and remove the trans, and then pull the engine out alone.
The struggle with subframe'd cars is usually that the angle needed to pull it out makes the trans hit the subframe, which stops forward-motion.

There are MANY creative ways to lower the engine, including hooking the CAR up to the engine hoist, and lifting the car high-enough to roll-out the engine/trans.
__________________
Craig R.
2008 9-5 Aero-1995 900T 'vert
g96nt is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2014, 10:09 AM  
TSLMember
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 67
It will come out the top. You can also do it in situ if you undo all motor mounts lift engine and move it to the left all the way.
LEP3 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2014, 01:39 PM  
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEP3 View Post
It will come out the top. You can also do it in situ if you undo all motor mounts lift engine and move it to the left all the way.
^^This.

It will come out the top with the trans on, but there is less than an inch of wiggle room, and you have to tilt the belt side up at at least 45* degrees! it's not fun and I do not recommend it.

I have a photo somewhere but can't find it at the moment. Just do it with the engine in place, it's not horrible.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2014, 02:07 PM  
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
sallythesaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Snowshoe, WV
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by g96nt View Post
Anything can be done with enough persistance.
You'd have to ask someone else, but I assume you could remove the engine mounts, and with enough gusto, (and a leveler) tip the trans down, and pull it out chain-first.
Or... lower the subframe, and remove the trans, and then pull the engine out alone.
The struggle with subframe'd cars is usually that the angle needed to pull it out makes the trans hit the subframe, which stops forward-motion.

There are MANY creative ways to lower the engine, including hooking the CAR up to the engine hoist, and lifting the car high-enough to roll-out the engine/trans.
That's a good idea.....lifting car with hoist and dropping engine that way. I'd personally like to get the engine out so I can inspect the whole thing and do timing properly. I'd consider doing in car the next time

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewP View Post
^^This.

It will come out the top with the trans on, but there is less than an inch of wiggle room, and you have to tilt the belt side up at at least 45* degrees! it's not fun and I do not recommend it.

I have a photo somewhere but can't find it at the moment. Just do it with the engine in place, it's not horrible.
In order to drop or pull engine........ does the trans have to come out with it?


Back to one of my original questions. Is there any tricks to locking cams or flywheel to TDC when engine is removed?
__________________
2004 9-3 SS Linear (SOLD)
2003 9-3 SS Linear
2002 9-5 Aero Wagon
2002 9-3 SE
2002 9-3 SE Vert
1999 LB 9-3 Viggen
1996 9000 CSE (RIP)
1990 9000 S (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sallythesaab is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2014, 02:24 PM  
Elder
 
Drew in Houston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA/MD
Posts: 2,430
No need to lock down TDC. For the crank, the end plate and pulley have a mark to align, and the cams also have marks. The new chain will also have links painted to help get the spacing correct.

As far as pulling out the top, the easiest way I've found is to remove the transmission out the bottom, then pull the engine out the top. That works in reverse too. Adds a few extra steps, but it works. The last 9-3 assembly I installed, I jacked the whole car waaay up, then rolled the assembly under it through the driver side wheel well. That works too, maybe not quite as safe though. You have to get it pretty high. I tried pulling a complete assembly out the top one time on a 9-3 and got stuck, in some ways the 9-5's are even tighter. Not saying it cant be done, it sounds like guys have done it, but it's TIGHT for sure. For me it started looking like one of those short cuts that takes longer in the end so I stopped, split the assemblies and went that way to make sure I didn't break something.
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Drew in Houston; 03-09-2014 at 02:28 PM.
Drew in Houston is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2014, 07:11 PM  
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,021
I have done it with the transmission attached so I didn't have to drop the subframe and deal with all the heat exchangers and power steering parts. I left the power string and A/C compressor connected and just dangling in the engine bay so I didn't have to deal with draining and filling them, but it wasn't the funnest.

Removing the trans first would make it easier for sure.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2014, 11:00 AM  
Flirting With TSL Addiction
 
sallythesaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Snowshoe, WV
Posts: 490
Think it would make sense to just knock out the head gasket while the engines out? Don't think its been replaced before.
__________________
2004 9-3 SS Linear (SOLD)
2003 9-3 SS Linear
2002 9-5 Aero Wagon
2002 9-3 SE
2002 9-3 SE Vert
1999 LB 9-3 Viggen
1996 9000 CSE (RIP)
1990 9000 S (SOLD)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sallythesaab is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2014, 11:26 AM  
Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 2,522
Send a message via ICQ to g96nt Send a message via AIM to g96nt Send a message via MSN to g96nt Send a message via Yahoo to g96nt
Saab HG's are metal, and are pretty tough.
It'll be wicked easy to do while the engine is out, but you're adding another couple/few hundred bucks to your job. the HG kit is not too expensive, but you'll need to send the head off to be planed, and have valve seals replaced and guides adjusted. then they exhaust manifold needs planed.
Then the water pump and thermostat needs replaced
...and pulleys need replacing...
Then hoses need replaced...
(see where this is going?)

Pull the engine, do the needed stuff, and maybe replace exhaust manifold studs(in case one breaks) I would leave the HG for another time. Even if it goes down the road, it's a single-day job, and just takes hand tools.
__________________
Craig R.
2008 9-5 Aero-1995 900T 'vert
g96nt is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2014, 05:28 PM  
Elder
 
oliversexpedition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Posts: 2,014
Suggest is that you save up or sell more things, once you have the engine out, do it right. If you're going to do a timing job, may as well do the HG since you will have it out of the car and on the stand.

Also good time to inspect the main and conrod bearings and clean oil pickup since again you will have it on the stand and good time to check.

Water pump, pulleys, etc depends on how old they are and budget.
__________________
99 9-5 Wagon
01 9-5 Sedan
99 9-5 Wagon parting out
94 C900 Vert - Sold
94 325i Vert
oliversexpedition is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.