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Old 01-19-2015, 09:16 AM   #1
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Viggen Motor - Loud Tapping Noise Video

So I have been running my built Viggen now for about 6 months and all seemed to be going well until about a week ago. The temperatures were very low, either in the teens or a bit lower, and as soon as I started her up, I heard a very loud tapping noise. Once the car warmed up, it went away, so I attributed it to cold oil (5W-40 Rotella) and a noisy lifter. Now about a week later with temps back up into the 30s and 40s, this noise has not gone away! Each start up begins with a terribly loud tapping, and after about 30 seconds to a minute quiets down to a lower constant tapping. All I know is that it matches RPM and it sounds like it's coming from the front end of the motor, maybe on the timing chain side.

The motor was built with JE pistons, has T5 cams, no issues before with the timing pieces and they have less than 10k on them. I dropped the oil pan after my last oil change about 800 miles ago and everything looked clean, there was minimal blockage of the pick up.

Anybody have any idea? I initially thought lifter but now I'm not sure. Could it be an exhaust leak from the manifold? It sounds to me like a metal on metal sound.

Here is a link to a video with the sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccg9PCQ5XQw
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #2
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It is probably one of two things:

1. An exhaust leak at the manifold. It sounds like there is an exhaust leak in the video, and this sound could come and go with temperatures. Look on the right side of the exhaust manifold, I bet its missing a stud or two.

2. A collapsed lifter. Not a big deal, just buy some new/used ones or clean the old ones.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:00 PM   #3
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It is probably one of two things:

1. An exhaust leak at the manifold. It sounds like there is an exhaust leak in the video, and this sound could come and go with temperatures. Look on the right side of the exhaust manifold, I bet its missing a stud or two.

2. A collapsed lifter. Not a big deal, just buy some new/used ones or clean the old ones.
I have a second head with lifters I'll borrow from if necessary. Odd because I had the valve cover off about 3 months ago and pumped the lifters by hand to see if they were good.

Would an exhaust leak make a loud RAP! like that?

Hopefully something simple! Thanks.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:06 PM   #4
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I have a second head with lifters I'll borrow from if necessary. Odd because I had the valve cover off about 3 months ago and pumped the lifters by hand to see if they were good.

Would an exhaust leak make a loud RAP! like that?

Hopefully something simple! Thanks.
Look at post #1 and post #31:
https://www.saablink.net/forum/car-pr...only/32148.htm

Unfortunately the video is gone, but it sounded very similar.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:30 PM   #5
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Thanks again. I'll have to take a look tomorrow.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:38 AM   #6
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You can suck ATF into the engine via the vacuum line for either the recirc valve or the PCV system. It will smoke like a MOFO and if you have an exhaust leak smoke will erupt from the compromised area. If no smoke emits from the header area then you have an internal problem. Try some marvel mystery oil in the sump; it sometimes works to free stuck lifters.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:07 PM   #7
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Its a manual so no ATF to worry about! I'm leaning toward an exhaust leak but have to really look at the car.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:57 PM   #8
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Its a manual so no ATF to worry about! I'm leaning toward an exhaust leak but have to really look at the car.
Haha. He is telling you to suck some ATF into the engine while running because it will smoke, and you could see smoke coming out of the exhaust leak.
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:04 PM   #9
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Haha. He is telling you to suck some ATF into the engine while running because it will smoke, and you could see smoke coming out of the exhaust leak.
Haha Do I feel stupid! Shows how much I know!
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:52 PM   #10
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Where are you located by chance?
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:55 AM   #11
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:00 AM   #12
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To back-up Mike's statement.
When I first bought my wagon, it had no noises, but within a few thousand miles, it developed what I was CERTAIN to be rod knock. I freaked and went worst-case, but in the end, it was 2 snapped exhaust studs. they were still in place, but there was nothing keeping the manifold from warping away from the head, blowing out the gasket, and leaking.

In the end, it was still a pain, since the head had to come off, but swapping a head is 1MM times easier than replacing a short-block, and gave me a chance to upgrade to a Aero head, with new HG, ARP studs, and whatever else went along with it. (looking back, I wish I had purchased ARP manifold studs, too.)

Take a look at the mating surface of the manifold/head. you can usually see the carbon deposits. If not, put a 13mm on the stud nuts and see if the spin/fall out.
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:20 AM   #13
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About 6 months ago I bought my gf a 2002 9-5. I was so excited that it had all its studs that I removed the bottom right one until the stud kit came in. I wasn't going to risk having a broken one and doing the head again!
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
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I hope removing the head isn't necessary, but if it is, so be it. The exhaust manifold hardware is only 6 months old! I'm going to try to look at it today to figure this out.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:19 PM   #15
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I took a closer look. All of the studs are in place, none are broken, and I tightened any that felt even the tiniest bit loose, but the manifold seems to be on securely. It does seem loud though. I'll be pulling the valve cover tomorrow and looking at the lifters to see if any are sticking.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:24 PM   #16
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Take a piece of rubber hose, maybe 2ft long. Put one end up to your ear, and move the other end around the engine, including the top and bottom of the manifold until you hear the most noise. It is a very effective way to track down where a noise is coming from.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:36 AM   #17
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Pulling the valve cover to look at lifters means pulling the timing chain off and pulling cams out. Not that hard, but I bet a little more detective work would find the noise.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:39 AM   #18
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Pulling the valve cover to look at lifters means pulling the timing chain off and pulling cams out. Not that hard, but I bet a little more detective work would find the noise.
Yeah I know all too well. I had everything out about 3 months ago when I last checked each of the lifters by hand.

The only thing I can say is that it hasn't hampered performance in any way, but I've had to drive cautiously since it is my DD.
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