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Old 06-28-2014, 07:30 PM   #1
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Exclamation 2000 Saab 9-3 Viggen

Ok so after reading post after post, I have finally given up on finding someone that has had this problem and has the solution posted.
The Scenario:
Brand new clutch kit including stage 3 disk, pressure plate, and slave cylinder. Had a shop do the install. I was thinking that since my car was having slipping issues, it may somehow have to do with why i could not press my clutch and change gears anymore randomly (sometimes it was fine sometimes it was miserable). Get it back from the shop after describing all the different ways to bleed the clutch that people on here have had success and the pedal would engage basically at the top of the pedal. Got right back out of the car after taking it around the block and said that i would like a new master cylinder put in it as well so they put that in and bleed it again. Still no better. When the car is on, the clutch can be pushed to the floor and must be basically jerked out of gear, then can not be put in any gear UNLESS RPM matching. The only way to get the car moving from a stop is to turn the car off and put it in first, turn it back on and rpm shift from there. The only way to get into reverse is to come to a complete stop, turn the car off and slip it into gear, can not be taken out of reverse while car is on even with a firm bump.
Spent some time on multiple forums including this one and thought maybe it could be motor mounts causing misalignment of the shift linkage so bought the mount for the drivers side transmission and had that installed at the shop as well as getting a welded nut replaced for the control arm. That is where the headache is left, took the car off the road so that i didn't damage it by continuously driving via rpm matching.
Issue with getting the one mount changed that may be causing the issue is that it is on back order with ridiculous order times.

There is no leakage on the ground or in the engine bay as far as i can see.

Thinking it may not be fully disengaging due to air getting into the system somehow or worn trans/motor mounts are shifting not allowing linkage to fully disengage.

New clutch installed it does not slip at all under WOT in any gear.

Wondering if there isn't a copper crimp ring missing somewhere allowing air into a banjo bolt or something (have had that when doing a brake job on a different car).

Anyone with knowledge of the viggen tranny know if there are known issues with shifting mechanisms etc?

History:
Car has about 140k on the odometer, was slipping a little when in lower gears @ WOT and a lot at higher gears @ WOT. Car still gets good mileage when in 5th cruising on the highway. recently fixed leaking exhaust manifold gasket with all new studs and gaskets, removed oil pan and pickup screen to clean out the buildup from previous owner running conventional oil in a turbo car... Nothing outstanding other than the little things so it should not be from something I caused.

Looking forward to hearing what y'all thing. Thanks
~Austin
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:31 AM   #2
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Your shop just did a bad job at bleeding the clutch. They can be a bitch to get bled right.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by VWSAABVT View Post
Your shop just did a bad job at bleeding the clutch. They can be a bitch to get bled right.
I agree! Once together, bleeding the slave cylinder is difficult.

One way to correct is to use a vacuum pump:

Disconnect the clutch hose from the nipple that goes to the slave cylinded.

Connect a hose to the nipple and half fill it with brake fluid.

Connect other to a vacuum pump and evacuate the air. Allow any bubbles to rise up into the hose and then relax the vacuum. Repeat until no more bubbles rise out of the nipple.

Reconnect the clutch hose to the nipple and then bleed the master cylinder. Use real care to keep the reservoir full. The clutch uses a slow filling chamber inside the reservoir and its easy to empty that chamber while the reservoir appears full.

I prefer to use a speed bleeder and route a hose back to the reservoir. Works well for me.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:59 PM   #4
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I am very sure it wasn't just a shops poor attempt to bleed the system, the first shop tried standard bleeding, vacuum from the slave, and pressure bleeding.The second shop that drilled out the control arm bolt even has Saab techs and they couldn't get it either. I also did the wood to the pedal trick about 20 times over the past 6 month. Still nothing.

Plus the grinding issue started before i took it to the first shop to get the whole clutch system (minus the lines) replaced. What are the odds the part that failed while driving normally had a faulty part re-installed or that two different shops could not do it and the leaving the clutch depressed overnight didn't work?

I agree it has to be something to do with air in the clutch hydraulics but i just cant make sense of it. Does the line that connects the Slave to the Master use a banjo bolt?

Thinking about having another new slave cylinder installed, maybe the brand new one i had installed is defective...
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Old 06-29-2014, 01:48 PM   #5
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I'd be suspicious of the clutch line at this point. That flexible portion can swell
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Old 06-29-2014, 02:49 PM   #6
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Is the bushing on the clutch pedal worn? Like here: https://www.saablink.net/forum/perfor...-3/81194-6.htm

Also, possibly the clutch disk itself is getting bound on the splined shaft? I've had to clean up splines with a dremel tool before.

Right now, my Viggen has started showing very similar symptoms, but only after a very humid and rainy period, as if the disk is getting some flash rust that's making things stick together. Because it only happens in the rain, I was thinking it may be lack of lubrication on the spline as well.

Alternately, possibly there's an issue with the supporting bearing on the input shaft of the trans? If there was enough lateral movement, I could see the disk becoming bound on the shaft.

Some ideas anyway...
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:44 PM   #7
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The clutch line doesn't seem to be in too bad of condition on the exterior but you can tell it is original and that it doesn't say anything about the interior condition.

I just checked the pin you were talking about, they look good where it attaches from the master to the clutch lever and from the recoil spring to the clutch lever. Both look about brand new.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:00 PM   #8
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Any more thoughts?
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:22 AM   #9
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Does the clutch pedal feel lighter than it did before the job? Is it sluggish in returning?
If you are not losing fluid (damn sure?) and it has been bled a bunch, you may have line clogged somewhere. A lot of times fluid that doesn't get changed in years gets clumps and these clumps can get stuck like a clot or fat deposit in the hydraulic system. Next time you open the clutch bleed nipple, upon depressing the clutch pedal, does fluid spurt out or does it just dribble a little bit? If it dribbles then you aren't getting the fluid displacement necessary.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:01 AM   #10
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The clutch feels a lot lighter than before, when i got in it the first time it was spongy and light but after the multiple times it just feels lighter than before. If i leave it overnight then it is sluggish to return but after it is returned it usually comes back just fine. I am sure, the car has been sitting in the same spot for a few months now so i know its not from anything else parking there and there is no fluid at all under it and i have not dropped fluid level at all.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:13 AM   #11
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So I guess you've chosen to disregarded and ignore the idea that the clutch disk may be bound and not able to move correctly on the transmission input shaft.
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Last edited by Drew in Houston; 07-08-2014 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:29 AM   #12
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Sorry didnt read whole thread but any hydraulic system that is slow to return or otherwise after sitting is usually fluid on the wrong side of the piston. Check out your master if you havent already
Again sorry for not reading
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:13 AM   #13
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Sorry i see now you have a new master.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:15 PM   #14
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Its not that i have chose to disregard it at all, i have not had the chance to tear into it that far since i don't have a garage at my apt that i can do it in. I still plan on checking it and making sure there are no burs on the shaft. I wanna get any possibilities so that when i do pull it apart i can check everything at once.
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