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Old 01-31-2014, 07:26 AM   #1
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1999 9-3 dies at gas pump

Hey guys, as title states back in September I stopped at a gas station as I was low on fuel. I put in 15.5 gallons so fuel tank was nearly empty. shut car off, filled it up. when I got back in to leave I started the car and it ran for about 2 seconds then coughed and died. Would not restart. towed it home. burning electrical smell under hood. the tac would jump when cranking so I figured cps was good. My thoughts were fuel pump or DIC. replaced DIC with an aftermarket unit and sprayed either down airbox breather and it started and died. No power to fuel pump so I had it replaced. Car still would not start on its own but would start and run off of Carb cleaner. Also replaced CPS just to be safe but it still wont start on its own. What else could it be? My mechanic is lost and this thing is going to cost me a fortune in diagnostic work if I cant figure this out. Compression is in the 150's on all 4 cylinders. Car was running fine before it quit. Did have a CEL which was a camshaft position sensor code that would come and go though. HELP!!!!!!!!!!

So to recap, car started then died. Replaced DIC,CPS and fuel pump. Car will only run on carb cleaner or starting fluid sprayed down the intake

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Old 01-31-2014, 09:22 AM   #2
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Is the fuel pump getting +12 volts when the engine is cranking?

When the ECU gets a tach (rpm) signal from the crank position sensor, it gives power to the fuel pump relay, which powers the pump. If you have power at the connector on the pump (across the the two large wires, the two smaller ones are for the level sensor for the gage in the dash) then the CPS, ECU, fuel pump relay, and fuel pump fuse are all ok, and you got a bad pump. If there is no power, then you work back to check the relay, the fuse, and the signal output wire from the ECU.

Dumb question - did you check the fuel pump fuses? Sometimes when the pump seizes up it blows the fuse. I believe there are more than one fuse labeled Fuel Pump.
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:16 PM   #3
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Bad gas? Clogged filter?
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:20 AM   #4
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Is the fuel pump getting +12 volts when the engine is cranking?

When the ECU gets a tach (rpm) signal from the crank position sensor, it gives power to the fuel pump relay, which powers the pump. If you have power at the connector on the pump (across the the two large wires, the two smaller ones are for the level sensor for the gage in the dash) then the CPS, ECU, fuel pump relay, and fuel pump fuse are all ok, and you got a bad pump. If there is no power, then you work back to check the relay, the fuse, and the signal output wire from the ECU.

Dumb question - did you check the fuel pump fuses? Sometimes when the pump seizes up it blows the fuse. I believe there are more than one fuse labeled Fuel Pump.
Thanks Drew for the reply. I showed your post to my mechanic and he said everything with the new fuel pump is functioning as it should. he replaced the pump itself as well as the relay. He also checked the fuses. He is telling me he thinks the injectors are not firing? Could this be a failed ECM?
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:23 AM   #5
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Bad gas? Clogged filter?

using new fuel and fuel filter was replaced along with the pump
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:25 AM   #6
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The gas me might have been watered down from the gas station. I remember reading about that happening to another member here a few years back
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:45 PM   #7
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The gas me might have been watered down from the gas station. I remember reading about that happening to another member here a few years back

Fuel source seems to be fine. Thanks for the tip though. Anybody have any ideas I can try?
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:57 PM   #8
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I had a similar situation recently. It was a cold start issue. I changed the T-stat and coolant temp sensor and all is well.

Also, read this post. Good luck

Saabnet.com: NG900 & 9-3 BB Post: Re: Weird starting problem
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:17 AM   #9
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Did you by any chance have it jumped? Were you cranking it for a long time? How about the TPS? Cam position sensor is generally thought to be the DIC, but there is not exactly consensus in terms of OBDII's relation to the DIC.
You could try an ECU.Perhaps a used one from a junkyard. Unlikely, but if the TWICE/DICE security system does not recognize the key it will disable the fuel pump, though, the car will run. You're obviously not getting fuel....

Oh, I remembered something--there is a difference in CPS units; BOTH FIT! A friend of mine just ordered one for his '99 9-3 and after months of headache had it towed to a shop with symptoms identical to yours. CPS was from an NA motor. I would make extra, extra, certain that the CPS matches the IDENTICAL part number to the one you pulled off.

Mechanics love to swap ECU's...it often stems from a lack of understanding, as they are seldom the case. Frequently, it is short in the harness or some such niggle that happens to get shifted when they swap the brain.
Good luck,
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:43 AM   #10
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Thanks Drew for the reply. I showed your post to my mechanic and he said everything with the new fuel pump is functioning as it should. he replaced the pump itself as well as the relay. He also checked the fuses. He is telling me he thinks the injectors are not firing? Could this be a failed ECM?


He thinks the injectors aren't firing? This is an easy thing to test, and very easy to make sure that fuel pressure is correctly reaching the fuel rail.

If the crank position sensor is bad neither the injectors, nor the fuel pump, nor the spark plugs will fire.

Faulty ECU is possible, but unless something happened to damage it they are extremely reliable.

A problem with the anti-theft system will let the engine crank but not start as well, in that case there would be immobilizer fault codes stored in the ECM and the TWICE modules.

Do you have a remote? Try putting the key in the ignition, turn it to 'ON', press the UN-lock button on the remote about 10 times, then try to start the engine and see if it starts.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cm452 View Post
Did you by any chance have it jumped? Were you cranking it for a long time? How about the TPS? Cam position sensor is generally thought to be the DIC, but there is not exactly consensus in terms of OBDII's relation to the DIC.
You could try an ECU.Perhaps a used one from a junkyard. Unlikely, but if the TWICE/DICE security system does not recognize the key it will disable the fuel pump, though, the car will run. You're obviously not getting fuel....

Oh, I remembered something--there is a difference in CPS units; BOTH FIT! A friend of mine just ordered one for his '99 9-3 and after months of headache had it towed to a shop with symptoms identical to yours. CPS was from an NA motor. I would make extra, extra, certain that the CPS matches the IDENTICAL part number to the one you pulled off.

Mechanics love to swap ECU's...it often stems from a lack of understanding, as they are seldom the case. Frequently, it is short in the harness or some such niggle that happens to get shifted when they swap the brain.
Good luck,
Cm
I did run the battery down cranking it over trying to figure out what was wrong with it as i was stranded 60+ miles from home. so it has had jumper cables hooked up to it since this happend. I will have the mechanic double check the cps to make sure he replaced it with the correct one. My thoughts exactly with the ecu, anything is possible but the car was running fine all day before this happened. I will also get him to check the tps as well. I replaced the DIC after this just to rule it out so that part is new as well.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:37 PM   #12
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He thinks the injectors aren't firing? This is an easy thing to test, and very easy to make sure that fuel pressure is correctly reaching the fuel rail.

If the crank position sensor is bad neither the injectors, nor the fuel pump, nor the spark plugs will fire.

Faulty ECU is possible, but unless something happened to damage it they are extremely reliable.

A problem with the anti-theft system will let the engine crank but not start as well, in that case there would be immobilizer fault codes stored in the ECM and the TWICE modules.

Do you have a remote? Try putting the key in the ignition, turn it to 'ON', press the UN-lock button on the remote about 10 times, then try to start the engine and see if it starts.
I bought this car from a local government auction without a key. I had to get a twice and matching key + ignition lock cylinder off ebay. I never had the twice programmed to the car. I just installed these items and gave it a try. The car started and I had other issues I had to fix before I could drive it so I never got that far. I cant lock the car since the key I have for the ignition doesnt match the door locks. I bought a remote for it but havent gotten it programmed yet. Will not having the twice programmed to the car cause problems?
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:21 AM   #13
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:05 AM   #14
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Yes, not having the TWICE module programmed will cause problems. I have no idea why it even started for you in the first place if it wasn't programmed to start with.

If it's immobilizer (TWICE) related the engine will crank but there will be no spark and no pulse to the fuel injectors. I think the fuel pump won't run either, but I'm not 100% from memory what gets disabled on the 9-3 when the immobilizer code from the key isn't received correctly.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:46 AM   #15
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Just a thought--I had the exact same problem of the car dying after I opened the gas tank, plus a bit of surging at idle at stoplights.

A new Evap Purge Valve fixed all my problems. I knew my fuel filter, pump, injectors, plugs etc were all good (new) before trying that, though.

On a second read it looks like you're having other issues too but the EPV might be part of the deal.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:57 PM   #16
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Yes, not having the TWICE module programmed will cause problems. I have no idea why it even started for you in the first place if it wasn't programmed to start with.

If it's immobilizer (TWICE) related the engine will crank but there will be no spark and no pulse to the fuel injectors. I think the fuel pump won't run either, but I'm not 100% from memory what gets disabled on the 9-3 when the immobilizer code from the key isn't received correctly.
When I tuned my car and accidentally enabled VSS on the ECU, it would crank and run on starter fluid, but would not start or run on its own.
Just an FYI.
I'd put money on it being a TWICE/DICE problem. They are weird. sometimes I'll be driving down the road and it will say "key not recognized".
The fact that it started despite having a non programmed TWICE is a major flag.
Get that sorted. Betcha it starts!
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:40 PM   #17
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Yes, not having the TWICE module programmed will cause problems. I have no idea why it even started for you in the first place if it wasn't programmed to start with.

If it's immobilizer (TWICE) related the engine will crank but there will be no spark and no pulse to the fuel injectors. I think the fuel pump won't run either, but I'm not 100% from memory what gets disabled on the 9-3 when the immobilizer code from the key isn't received correctly.
Yes I was surprised as well. everything I have read told me that the "KEY NOT ACCEPTED" would appear on the SID until I had the twice married to the ecu. I was also surprised when I swapped in the new to me TWICE and changed the ignition lock cylinder to the one that came with the key and tried to start it for the heck of it and it fired. I drove it for 2 months like this but a bunch of other issues have caused it to sit here and there in my driveway while I gather the parts to fix it, which has allowed the battery to die several times. I dont know if this would effect things or not. When I put the key in the ignition and turn it, I get "check ok" on the SID. Would I still get this message if the immobilizer is active? Sorry for being such a NOOB guys. my gut was telling to get the twice programmed even though the car was running. Money was tight and I couldnt find a indy or dealer in my area that would do it for less than 200 bucks.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:42 PM   #18
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Thanks everyone for your help so far!! I'm determind to figure this out!!
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:17 PM   #19
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UPDATE!

FINALLY got the car fixed. The damn fuel pump was installed incorrectly. old mechanic hooked the send and return lines up backwards....destroyed the new pump in the process. I couldnt believe it when My indy told me. After alot of head scratching and time ( yr and a half, work and other stuff got in the way ) several new parts I didnt need..and yet another new pump, I should be picking my car up tomrrow. Found a saab indy in Richmond that really knows his stuff. He figured it out in no time. I will be taking my work order to the old shop with me to get my money back thats for sure
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:50 PM   #20
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Good News! Glad that you got it squared away.

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Originally Posted by 9-3_newbie View Post
UPDATE!

FINALLY got the car fixed. The damn fuel pump was installed incorrectly. old mechanic hooked the send and return lines up backwards....destroyed the new pump in the process. I couldnt believe it when My indy told me. After alot of head scratching and time ( yr and a half, work and other stuff got in the way ) several new parts I didnt need..and yet another new pump, I should be picking my car up tomrrow. Found a saab indy in Richmond that really knows his stuff. He figured it out in no time. I will be taking my work order to the old shop with me to get my money back thats for sure
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