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Old 11-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #1
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Bleeding Clutch

Earlier today SRP (Sean) was nice enough to help me bleed the clutch on the Viggen.. He first tried to bleed the master with suction but then switched to forcing fluid into the bleed nipple which worked much better. After getting some air out, the clutch was still grabbing really low and it was still difficult to smoothly get into the gears. Sean drove the car and had the same issue. He thinks the slave needs to be bled again so that's the next thing I'm going to attempt. If I understood him correctly, normally the slave is bench bled before being installed. Since that's not an option, what I have to do is remove the master bleed nipple fitting and and attach a clear hose full of fluid and manually modulate the slave cylinder to force air out and pull fluid in. Sean tried his best to explain how to modulate the slave with a screw driver but does anyone know of a write up or pictures showing where to push. He said Nick T had a write up but I can't seem to find it. Second, the bleed valve fitting that's on top of the trans is really loose. Sean said there's a plastic ring that breaks and allows all the play in the fitting. I can't seem to find that part, if someone could let me know what the part number is I'd really appreciate it.

Here's a picture from today, cayenne red and lightning blue look good together



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Old 11-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #2
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when my dad bought the car it had a similar issue if i recall. it wound up the the slave seal had failed and fluid was leaking inside the bell housing. since brake/clutch fluid are shared reservoir youd be getting the brake warning if that was the case at least.

how many miles are on the car now anyway?



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Old 11-23-2013, 10:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
when my dad bought the car it had a similar issue if i recall. it wound up the the slave seal had failed and fluid was leaking inside the bell housing. since brake/clutch fluid are shared reservoir youd be getting the brake warning if that was the case at least.

how many miles are on the car now anyway?
Braking is fine and the fluid isn't leaking anywhere, not that i can tell at leas, the reservoir level hasn't changed. The car just crossed 184k miles, I'm really hoping bleeding the slave will solve my problem.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:19 AM   #4
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Bleeding the clutch on these cars can be a royal pain.

To bleed the slave cylinder, try removing the feed line from the master cylinder, attach a hand vacuum pump to that upper fitting and draw the air out of the hose and slave cylinder. Gently relax the vacuum and repeat until no more air comes out. You might (probably) will need to add a small bit of brake fluid to the hose.

To bleed to master cylinder, I prefer to use a speed bleeder rather than the standard bleed nipple. It has a one-way valve built into it and a sealant on the threads. Really makes bleeding the system an easy one-man chore.

Run a hose from the speed bleeder back into the brake reservoir and then overfill the reservoir.

Crack open the speed bleeder and repeatedly pump the clutch pedal until no more air can be seen in the hose. Close the bleed nipple and try the clutch. If solid, remove the excess fluid from the reservoir.

One of the "gotcha's" of bleeding the clutch is the fluid reservoir. There's an internal reservoir just for the clutch inside the primary reservoir. Has a very small hole to refill. The purpose is to prevent a clutch failure from draining the brake fluid and causing a total brake failure.

When bleeding, it's VERY easy to empty that internal reservoir because it re-fills quite slowly and reintroduce air into the clutch system, all while the main reservoir appears to have plenty of fluid.

Over filling the reservoir and then routing the fluid back into it keeps both the main reservoir and that internal one full of fluid and eliminates the problem of emptying the clutch's reservoir.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
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i use s syringe and power push fluid through the nipple on the bellhousing. then i pump the clutch 20 or so times, then push another syringe full through it. then pump, then another syringe full, then pump, then drive, then another syringe full. i have a very nice pedal right where it should be.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by win_k View Post
Bleeding the clutch on these cars can be a royal pain...........
Thanks for all the info! I'm a little confused where to actually bleed the slave. Is there another valve for the slave once I remove master cylinder bleed valve fitting?
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #7
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The plastic bit you want, it goes in the top of the transmission and steadies the slave lines quick connect fitting, the silver bit in this pic:



Replace the clip that holds the manifold to the quick connect fitting as well.
Here is a convenient post to both part numbers...
https://www.saablink.net/forum/804495-post13.htm

Here is a link to the bench bleeding procedure:
11.02.2006: Saab NG900 Manual Transmission Installation - photo.platonoff.com

And the link to the in car details:
SaabCentral Forums - View Single Post - Brand New Clutch- Should it feel like this

Basically, the screw driver is replacing your hands, you use it as a lever to push in the slave through that access cover.

The idea for a speed bleeder is ingenious, but you won't be able to force fluid back through the bleeder if you want to reverse bleed.

Last edited by srp; 11-24-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #8
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Awesome! Thanks for all your help Sean, I really appreciate it!!
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:01 AM   #9
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the way I bleed the clutch hydraulics on these cars is i made a tool that replaces the level sensor in the reservoir that has a valve stem in it.

I screw it onto the reservoir, pressurize with the compressor and then crack the bleeder valve, let the air/fluid out, close it and pressurize again. repeat until there are no more air bubbles.

I'll take a picture of it when I get home from work this evening.

and if you need it, I'll ship it out to you for you to borrow.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:28 AM   #10
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I lent him my motive pressure bleeder which does the same thing. However they is something strange going on with hogs master cylinder. The reservoir our the master is wrong for the car. Would need to remove the squid bar to get the bleeder cap on.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:27 AM   #11
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Nick T write ups:

Taliaferro Imports, Inc. GenuineSaab.com
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
Unfortunately the information we are looking for is not found there.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post

Replace the clip that holds the manifold to the quick connect fitting as well.
Here is a convenient post to both part numbers...
https://www.saablink.net/forum/804495-post13.htm

Here is a link to the bench bleeding procedure:
11.02.2006: Saab NG900 Manual Transmission Installation - photo.platonoff.com

And the link to the in car details:
SaabCentral Forums - View Single Post - Brand New Clutch- Should it feel like this
.
Thanks for all your help Sean. I called a couple dealers including the old Saab dealer, i think its a fiat dealer now? The parts guy said he could have it by Wednesday. The local Chevy dealers had to order them too so I just went with the Saab dealer, give them some business. Bleed will have to wait till this weekend.

Here are the GM part numbers thanks to SRP

Retainer bushing - GM 90522038
Retainer clip - GM 88958853


Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohnny View Post
the way I bleed the clutch hydraulics on these cars is i made a tool that replaces the level sensor in the reservoir that has a valve stem in it.

I screw it onto the reservoir, pressurize with the compressor and then crack the bleeder valve, let the air/fluid out, close it and pressurize again. repeat until there are no more air bubbles.

I'll take a picture of it when I get home from work this evening.

and if you need it, I'll ship it out to you for you to borrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
I lent him my motive pressure bleeder which does the same thing. However they is something strange going on with hogs master cylinder. The reservoir our the master is wrong for the car. Would need to remove the squid bar to get the bleeder cap on.
Thanks John I appreciate the offer. I don't think I'll need it because like Sean said I have his pressure bleeder. We bled the master a couple times so that part of the system is good. I'm going to attempt to bleed the slave first. If that doesn't work maybe ill take you up on that offer, I'll keep you posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
Unfortunately the information we are looking for is not found there.
Lol do you think I'm that lazy, that I didn't even bother to log onto his site? Sean and I both looked while we were at his house and I looked when I got home but none of those write up talk about manual compressing the slave.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
Unfortunately the information we are looking for is not found there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moreboost View Post






Lol do you think I'm that lazy, that I didn't even bother to log onto his site? Sean and I both looked while we were at his house and I looked when I got home but none of those write up talk about manual compressing the slave.

I tried.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
I lent him my motive pressure bleeder which does the same thing. However they is something strange going on with hogs master cylinder. The reservoir our the master is wrong for the car. Would need to remove the squid bar to get the bleeder cap on.
Out of the two items mentioned, it could be possible the master cylinder is the wrong unit for the car. I installed it last winter....it had been insanely cold for a long stretch of days (like 0 to -10 F), and one morning I went to get in the car and upon startup, the clutch pedal stuck to the floor. Because saabkid had previously said that the clutch was replaced around the 80-100k mark, my father and I thought that the issue was the master. We replaced it and the car drove fine all throughout the spring/summer, except that it had a low release on the pedal. I just lived with this, as it shifted fine.

When I put the new master in, I put it side-by-side with what was in the car previously, and the two units appeared to match perfectly. With that being said, I have seen master cylinders that are junk/non-functional right out of the box...in fact, I had such happen when I replaced one in a c900 awhile back. So, with the bleeding issues persisting now, it might be worth a try to swap in an OEM saab master or another known good unit.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:36 PM   #16
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Are you talking about the brake master cylinder or the clutch master cylinder?

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the brake master cylinder.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
Are you talking about the brake master cylinder or the clutch master cylinder?

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the brake master cylinder.
Clutch master cylinder.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:55 AM   #18
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I replaced the brake master at some point I believe which is why the reservoir is in an odd spot. It's possible I was sent the wrong one/something with a parts interchange 9-3 to viggen or something. Or at least I removed it to put a new o ring on it at the booster? I can't recall



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Old 11-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
I replaced the brake master at some point I believe which is why the reservoir is in an odd spot. It's possible I was sent the wrong one/something with a parts interchange 9-3 to viggen or something. Or at least I removed it to put a new o ring on it at the booster? I can't recall
It was def. not for a Viggen, we compared pics to mine where the Viggen one is canted.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:54 PM   #20
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I think the difference is in a spacer that sits between master and reservoir and functionally they are the same



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