Occasional rough idle, and dirty pcv system - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab NG900 '94-'98 and 9-3 '99-'02 Forum > Car Problems? NG900 or old 9-3 Only

Car Problems? NG900 or old 9-3 Only If you're experiencing problems with your NG900 or 9-3, post your question in here. CEL Code or GTFO!

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-22-2017, 12:07 PM   #1
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Occasional rough idle, and dirty pcv system

So I just picked up a manual 2002 saab 9-3 se the guy only put about 1000 miles a year for the last 6 years so its mostly sat. It starts fine but after a few minutes it starts to idle rough, but intermittently, someone mentioned crank shaft position sensor? It doesnt come close to dying. Obviously it could be a myriad of things, the old gas, air filter etc. My question is, is this possibly because of my pcv system? I pulled the rubber line off of my valve cover and the line is covered in yellowish brown sludge. It also looks like the pcv check valve is full of oil and very old. I do however have the pcv update kit installed. Ive checked the oil and coolant and both appear to be fine the coolant level hasnt changed and the exhaust has no smell of oil. Coolant is green and the oil is Amber. I'm just thinking I need that cheap white pcv check valve? Although theyre are two rubber lines coming out of the valve cover, the smaller diameter one going to the check valve didnt seem to have yellow sludge just oil in the valve. My valve cover gasket does leak by the way on the right side of the engine looking at it from under the hood. Not sure if thats relevant. Other than that I have a power steering line that leaks pretty good, but that doesnt have any bearing on how the car idles? Any input would be appreciated, I'm not sure why I have yellow sludge in my pcv lines if I have the update kit installed, could it possibly be old sludge from before the pcv update kit was installed? I'm waiting for my paycheck to come in, other wise I would just replace the pcv check valve and just clean all the pcv lines and see if more yellow sludge shows up.


Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-22-2017, 04:39 PM   #2
Drew In Houston
Elder
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
Yellow sludge in the PCV system probably means there's high water content in the oil. That could be because it never fully warmed up over the past 6 years, or maybe a headgasket weep. I wouldn't worry about that, change the oil, drive it, see if it keeps happening.

On the rough idle, like you wrote, it could be a few things, but probably not related to the PCV system. I'd start by checking that all the vacuum lines are connected and not cracked, changing plugs, and making sure there's good gas in there.
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.
Trionic3000 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2017, 05:36 PM   #3
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Yea it does seem to have a very small head gasket leak on the left hand side of the engine near the serp belt.Like I said though my coolant and oil look good he just did an oil change, so its probaly an external leak? The gasket looks fresh I was just going to re torque the head bolts and see if that helps. The guy I bought it from said he just changed the spark plugs but couldnt find the ngks that went old so he did something else. I should probably get the proper ngks? Also he said the dic is new... I'm not throwing and cel. I really think its just old gas hopefully. Took it for a spin down the road turbo works and power seemed good (accidently chirrped the tires going into second) I will report back after some more work. I cleaned the yellow sludge so lets see if it comes back..

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2017, 06:05 AM   #4
lms
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,337
Change the oil no matter what, god knows what was put in it, Put shell rotella in it. Change the plugs, fuel filter, air filter and every vacuum hose if need be. Pull the maf off and clean it. Start filling up with the highest octane you have in your area and dump a large bottle of techron in it and drive it.
lms is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2017, 02:12 PM   #5
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lms View Post
Change the oil no matter what, god knows what was put in it, Put shell rotella in it. Change the plugs, fuel filter, air filter and every vacuum hose if need be. Pull the maf off and clean it. Start filling up with the highest octane you have in your area and dump a large bottle of techron in it and drive it.
So I fixed the idle, I think it was the combination of my dirty air filter, old gas and I changed out some vacuum lines that were shot. (Damn that was a pita) now it idles prefect. So now my only issue is somehow I'm getting moisture into my oil. I went to check it today and the dip stick had a very small amount of yellow sludge that I had never seen before. Granted the car is not registered so I havent been able to drive it awhile only warning it up in the driveway for 15-20 mins. Someone said I shouldn't worry if the car only made short trips (which it only did for the last 6 year's) unfortunalty I didnt have enough to afford and oil change today, but I will tomorrow. The coolant still looks fine and its a little bit below the cold line when cold and goes up to the line on the tank when warm, is that normal? It is a pita to drain the coolant but I should probably do that as well? The exhaust doesnt have any foul smell from it and coolant is normal colored, and as far as the oil goes it looks fine maybe just a bit low which is expected with my valve cover gasket leaking and the oil drain plug. I cleaned off my engine block the other day and after running it I checked the perimeter of the head gasket and it looks good no leaks. But yea the car seems to have ample power starts up fine, runs fine no cel I did take it for a test drive when I got it. Should I be concerned about my head gasket? Car only has 137k on it, and the head gasket is usually good at that mileage? Id go do a compression test but I dont have one.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #6
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glen Mills, PA (Phila)
Posts: 1,543
You can rent compression testers from Autozone and other places for free.
BuHuSPG is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2017, 06:28 PM   #7
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Awesome. So i definitely need to change the oil.. Drove it 80 miles straight today ran fine. Checked the oil and there is even more yellow whitish sludge... Power is great though.. Still going to do a compression teat and a cel code just came up today. Thinking cps since the car died randomly on me. Oil level is still fine coolant hasnt changed. Either I do have a small hg leak or somehow serious condensation is coming into the oil. I will report back tomorrow, I will hopefully have the oil change and report on the cel


Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2017, 09:16 PM   #8
Drew In Houston
Elder
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
Dude. Re-read what me and LMS wrote. We told you to check the vac lines, and put in good gas. You did it, and now your idle problem is solved. A dirty air filter on a car that drives okay will not cause an idle issue.

We told you to change your oil...because never fully warming up causes condensation and high water content in your oil--that is probably already there, and is the cause of the white stuff that you're seeing; water in your oil is also bad for lubrication and not conducive to long engine life.

You may not have an ongoing leak, and in any case, checking the headgasket around the block won't tell you if there's a slight coolant leak into one of the oil passage ways. Checking the compression, while a good thing to know, also, will not tell you if you have a small coolant leak into one of the oil passages. A small coolant leak, while large enough to cause white stuff in your oil, potentially, would also be difficult to see in the coolant fill tank except over many miles.

Get it fully warmed up and then change your oil, then drive it to see what happens.

Yes, dying randomly and then starting like nothing happened is inline with one of the dominant failure modes of a failing CPS.
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Trionic3000; 12-27-2017 at 09:26 PM.
Trionic3000 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2017, 11:10 PM   #9
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Yea I know I was simply reporting that i did indeed swap out some vacuum lines. I did see you wrote that originally it was one of the first things I noticed wrong, sorry for the redundancy. And I'm doing an oil change first thing this morning when the store opens. I'll report back if white stuff comes back. My aptitude for cars only goes so far.. If i am indeed "leaking coolant into an oil passage" I think you said, what exactly does that mean? Something serious no doubt?

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-28-2017, 05:17 AM   #10
Drew In Houston
Elder
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
Sorry! I didn't mean it to sound quite that harsh lol. Anyway, you're on the right track.

Internally, there are holes in the head, and there are holes in the block that line up for both oil and coolant to flow through. The headgasket is in between the two. It's possible that one passage leaks into the other with no outward symptoms (it's also common that one of the coolant passages leaks into a cylinder too), that's all I was trying to describe.

If you do have a leak between passages, it's not serious from a broken part perspective, but the labor to pull the head clean things up and put it back together is significant. I've never paid anyone to do a headgasket, not sure what the going rate it. It's not actually that hard to do but it does take tools and time and you need someplace to do it; it's not like a Saturday-morning-parked-along-the-curb thing.

If it were me, I'd just put in some inexpensive oil and drive it on some longer trips and and see what things look like. If it turns out that it needs a headgasket, then you're looking at an oil change afterwards to clear out any debris that get dislodged anyway.

Sorry again for the crappy tone, that was more than I meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffcentola View Post
Yea I know I was simply reporting that i did indeed swap out some vacuum lines. I did see you wrote that originally it was one of the first things I noticed wrong, sorry for the redundancy. And I'm doing an oil change first thing this morning when the store opens. I'll report back if white stuff comes back. My aptitude for cars only goes so far.. If i am indeed "leaking coolant into an oil passage" I think you said, what exactly does that mean? Something serious no doubt?

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
__________________
Co-Founder:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
First T7 19T turbo setup. First T7 Deka 80lb. injector setup.

Last edited by Trionic3000; 12-28-2017 at 05:19 AM.
Trionic3000 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-28-2017, 05:37 AM   #11
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Hmm well all I can do is hope for the best. I would normally tackle the job myself if I do need a hg job but its been very cold lately and unfortunately I have NO tools whatsoever anymore to do work myself long story, basically ends with yea you guessed it no tools! Lol... I have to buy my own wrench to do an oil change. I have about 1000$ laying around to put into this car if need be. If the water keeps coming back then i definitely need to fix it before it damages the integrity of the engine.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-28-2017, 10:34 PM   #12
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trionic3000 View Post
Sorry! I didn't mean it to sound quite that harsh lol. Anyway, you're on the right track.

Internally, there are holes in the head, and there are holes in the block that line up for both oil and coolant to flow through. The headgasket is in between the two. It's possible that one passage leaks into the other with no outward symptoms (it's also common that one of the coolant passages leaks into a cylinder too), that's all I was trying to describe.

If you do have a leak between passages, it's not serious from a broken part perspective, but the labor to pull the head clean things up and put it back together is significant. I've never paid anyone to do a headgasket, not sure what the going rate it. It's not actually that hard to do but it does take tools and time and you need someplace to do it; it's not like a Saturday-morning-parked-along-the-curb thing.

If it were me, I'd just put in some inexpensive oil and drive it on some longer trips and and see what things look like. If it turns out that it needs a headgasket, then you're looking at an oil change afterwards to clear out any debris that get dislodged anyway.

Sorry again for the crappy tone, that was more than I meant.
So I changed the oil and I have driven 100 miles and no moisture. The codes are p1110 and p0300 so I'm going to change the spark plugs, and the BPV. Hopefully it wont be the dic or something more expensive. I have noticed on the highway in fifth gear the turbo gauge flutters under slight load as well as the rpms but so slightly perhaps a hundred rpms max two. Is that the misfire or the BPV hopefully, also thinking of changing the boost control valve? Also I cant seem to get more than around 10 gallons into my car probably less. It was dark and I wasnt paying attention i kept "topping it off" until it was almost spilling out the neck, it then slowly seeped down . I searched the forum its some valve in the filler neck or something? Any other advice is appreciated.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Jeffcentola; 12-28-2017 at 10:37 PM.
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-12-2018, 08:18 PM   #13
Avid TSL User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: higganum ct
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trionic3000 View Post
Sorry! I didn't mean it to sound quite that harsh lol. Anyway, you're on the right track.

Internally, there are holes in the head, and there are holes in the block that line up for both oil and coolant to flow through. The headgasket is in between the two. It's possible that one passage leaks into the other with no outward symptoms (it's also common that one of the coolant passages leaks into a cylinder too), that's all I was trying to describe.

If you do have a leak between passages, it's not serious from a broken part perspective, but the labor to pull the head clean things up and put it back together is significant. I've never paid anyone to do a headgasket, not sure what the going rate it. It's not actually that hard to do but it does take tools and time and you need someplace to do it; it's not like a Saturday-morning-parked-along-the-curb thing.

If it were me, I'd just put in some inexpensive oil and drive it on some longer trips and and see what things look like. If it turns out that it needs a headgasket, then you're looking at an oil change afterwards to clear out any debris that get dislodged anyway.

Sorry again for the crappy tone, that was more than I meant.
So I changed the plugs gapped them to 1m and bypass valve and boost control valve and solenoid also cleaned the maf which was rather dirty. Car is running soo much better it was running just about 100 percent boosting into yellow/red for a second then stops(I think that's normal) then today I decided to clean my engine bay I disconnected the battery and covered the dic with a plastic bag. I kinda had An emergency so I had to leave.. I dried my engine bay best I could with a rag on the most important parts like the exposed wiring. Could I have messed up my new bpc or solenoid by getting them wet? Ive done a visual check of the ic hoses and pulled very lightly on the connections they seem to tight, also the hoses going to the bpc all look fine. Every vacuum line was just re done with silicone. The wastegate arm still moves by hand (not that easily) I do not have a compressor laying around to pressure test the actuator but what psi should the arm start moving? I'm going to use a friends. It doesn't jerk back and forth and seem to have a fuel cut so I don't think its my fuel pump but I havent checked what psi I'm at currently so maybe its that but I doubt it. Sometimes it seems if I am letting the turbo build boost a little then mash the pedal it responds pretty good but if I just drop it into gear and mash the pedal it sometimes only boosts mid yellow ish. Sure you might say its the bpc or bypass valve but both are just replaced. The wiring going to the bpc doesn't seem in great condition though it seems rather brittle as the black protective housing just flakes and breaks apart. Putting all those parts in has cleared my cel but I still feel I have a boost problem somewhere. I got my parts from eeuro maybe they'll let me swap out my bpc for another one? One last thing I've been running 87 lately because I'm broke, so maybe that could be it a bad batch of gas... Any help appreciated Idk where to go next from here.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
Jeffcentola is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-15-2018, 04:14 AM   #14
lms
Live, eat, and sleep by TSL
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,337
87 isn't going to cut it, boost wise. I gain about 6 lbs of boost from 89 to 93. What baseboost are you running, check that as well?
lms is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Vehicle Info.
Enter your vehicle information (year, model, mods)
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.


 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.