Code P1141 04 ARC
What's up guys?
So 2 weeks ago I decided it would be a good idea to play with a mustang and a charger while deep in the heart of Boston and I guess I was too rough on it and it blew out the retaining clips for the hard vacuum lines. I literally had no time to deal with the issue so I dropped it off at my emergency mechanic.
When Picking it up he let me know that I did have some codes on there for a MAP sensor and Thermostat before he cleared them so the check engine light may turn back on for those still.
Well I turned the car on and the light was off. When the light came on, I was down the street from work. The shop is less than 10 miles away from my job so I thought it was pretty quick for it to turn back on.
I keep a moderately equipped scanner in my car so I decided to see what exactly was causing the light to turn on. The scanner came back saying that this would be a manufacturer specific code and looking the code up (P1141) it points to the Oxygen sensor. I did a search on the net and I see that other people have had this code before as well but they are replacing the sensor after the Cat converter.
So, here is the discrepancy. The scanners live data reads is indicating that there is no signal coming from Bank 1 Sensor 1 which from my perspective means that going downstream from the manifold, sensor 1 is the sensor closest to the turbo. exiting out of the muffler. I see that others on the net are saying that it would be the 02 Sensor right after the Cat Converter which from my perspective, would be sensor 2.
I bought an O2 from advanced (Bosch 16174) which is a direct fit. I'm going to change my O2 right before I set sail for home today. This should be about a 50 mile drive from work.
The reason I am posting this is because I see that people like to talk car talk or try to provide assistance at a high level a bit too much. Coming from an IT world, high level talk just leads to more confusion and causes people to get frustrated a little too easy.
I will let you guys know what my results are after my quick 02 change.
Decided since it got a bit slower at work to spend 20 minutes to change the o2 sensor. Changed it with an adjustable and I was able to get a reading within the scanners live data read function. Cleared the code and will notify you guys later on this evening.
By the way, I realized this is in the wrong Section. Can a moderator move this thread to the correct Saab 9-5 section if possible please?
Got home and the CEL came back on. Ordered O2 for the sensor right after the cat converter. Should be in by tonight so when I get home I will be installing it and going for a cruise after I clear the light.
The same P1141 code is showing. Bank 1 sensor 1 seems to be a little misleading on paper.
EEuro finally shipped my parts. Should be receiving them soon to continue my testing and update of information.
P1141 is for the rear O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 2 (you're correct, #1 us upstream closest to the manifold, #2 is downstream of the catalyst.)
Some generic scanners don't correctly translate manufacturer codes like the P1141. It's actually for the heater circuit for the downstream O2 sensor.
If you still get the code after swapping the sensor, check that there is switched +12vdc (it might be +5vdc, I don't remember for certain but I'm pretty sure it gets 12v) across the white wires at the O2 sensor connector, those are for the heater. You should also see some resistance across the white wires on the disconnected sensor. If it's open or up in the mega-ohm range the heater in the sensor is likely bad.
I changed the O2 sensor yesterday and cleared the code. I also changed the thermostat with a new Genuine Saab one because when I got my car back from the mechanic, he let me know that his TechII had given me a code for it and he put it on the invoice.
O2 sensor code did not come back on yet but an unusual thing is happening. When I shut down the car, it sputters as though it still wants to stay running. The only thing I can think of for that weird issue is that it is misfiring or there may be something going on with the ignition switch. I'm going to swap out the DI cassette to see if that does something because I did swap that out before to deal with some random misfiring which I found out later that it would be related to the thermostat sensor going out due to incorrect engine temp readings.
So went on break and the check engine light came back on but with a different error code (P1641). When I replaced my O2 sensor after the cat, I did see that the wire was pinched between the nut for the engine mount in the rear and the washer. I would have to assume that there was a short and the fuse popped for the O2 sensor. Only reason why I went to the mechanic is for him to replace the rear mount because doing that on ones back is not fun. I have done it before when doing the timing chain and the head gasket.
Looked around the forums and I see that this points to the fuel pump and the O2 circuit so I am going to take a look at those fuses.
The symptoms as to what I was experiencing does make sense though. If a circuit to the pump cannot be read and the car is able to start and run, this would tell me that the the car doesn't know when to stop feeding fuel when the car is off. I brought the car to the mechanic to scan the car since he ruined my O2 sensor from the start. His tech II gave me the information I needed. There was also a code (P1640) for the immobilizer and the ABS items. I'm starting to wonder if the relay box is acting up.
I plan on disconnecting the harness tonight after I check the fuses and relays.
Welp, turns out that the code 1641 is an issue with when the previous owner had a subwoofer system installed. I kept on jiggling the harness that comes from the fusebox/relay box under the driver side dash and goes into the firewall right behind the brake pedal and then cleared the code. Took it for a nice drive last night and cycled the car on and off a few times while parked to see if the light would turn back on. Drove it a bit hard today and the light has remained off.
So the conclusion to this whole thread is as DrewP said, generic scanner will give an incorrect sensor reading for the O2 sensors. I was using a Harbor Freight scanner in this case. Code 1141 is indeed the oxygen sensor after the CAT.
Code 1641 is for an O2 sensor/Fuel Pump circuit issue.
I did get code 1640 when the mechanic scanned the car and that was for the immobilizer, ABS modules and Theft Prevention System.
Code 1640 and 1641 seem to be harness related so people inspect the harnesses for age and breaks. I'm going to get the mechanic to run another scan later on today to see if he sees those code.
The only thing I can think of as to why I received those codes is after I changed the 02 sensor, I decided to take out the old RCA wires and the power and ground cables that came with the car for subwoofer hookups. It seems as though whoever installed the power cable ran the wire through the same grommet for the harness that comes from the fuse/relay box to the engine bay and nicked a couple wires there. What I ended up doing was lifting the grommet a bit and fed the power wire through that way and gave it an extra layer of protection from getting sliced.
Other than all of this things seem to be working normally now.
Had a 2001 Saab 95SE. Bought it used with no idiot lites showing. After about 600 miles it started acting up. Also noticed what sounded like a vaccume leak. The P1141 error was diagnosed as well as P16xx (don’t remember the exact number). I bought an OBD II digital adapter to use with my iPhone.
The 2 oxygen sensors were changed and the car ran better, but still had other codes showing.
Bottom line the vacuum lines needed to be replaced or reseated. The vacuum leak sound changed, however breaking was always an issue from the day I bought it to the end when the breaks failed to stop the car within a reasonable distance on an emergency stop.
Lessons learned- digital OBD adaptors work well, if not better than dedicated equipment because their software reference data is usually updated to include new information; buy the custom made oxygen sensors made for your Saab (likely Bosch) that directly replace the previous sensors to avoid bad installations; check out all potential vacuum leaks and fix, even valve covers. Saab’s apparently have little tolerance for vacuum leaks.
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