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Performance Modifications for the NG900 / Old 9-3 This forum contains PERFORMANCE related Q&A's for the NG900 and 9-3. This may also include suspension.

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Old 04-19-2013, 04:32 AM   #1
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Brake fade ....

I got told from someone that if you change our rubber/ plastic brake lines from the standard to braided this will eliminate a lot of the brake fade.

He said that when the brake lines get hot, the standard flexi rubber lines expand a bit making a long brake pedal.

Any truth to this?

I might add that the guy that told me this was also a total dickhead /doucher
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:58 AM   #2
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I don't see the lines making a difference in terms of fade, they do help bigtime with pedal feel though. I put braided stainless in my 900, pedal is like a rock. What he MAY have been getting at is that standard brake fluid can boil relatively easily under heavy/frequent braking. You can replace with one of the boutique fluids (eg superblue) to prevent.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:18 AM   #3
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^^Agreed.

Breaded lines with help firm up the pedal feel. While it will help a little once things get real heated up, your main components to brake fade are your pads/rotors/fluid if it's reached it's boiling point.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:19 AM   #4
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If you've never done a brake fluid flush, it's time.

I did a full flush and switched to ATE Super Blue, added Vig/Aero front brakes with Hawk HPS pads along with 300mm Aero rear brakes and stainless lines throughout. The brakes are nice and firm and repeatedly react the same over the course of a long, spirited drive.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogan View Post
I got told from someone that if you change our rubber/ plastic brake lines from the standard to braided this will eliminate a lot of the brake fade.

He said that when the brake lines get hot, the standard flexi rubber lines expand a bit making a long brake pedal.

Any truth to this?

I might add that the guy that told me this was also a total dickhead /doucher
now to figure out why people talk to douchers
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:56 AM   #6
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It will help some for sure; brake fluid gets extremely hot when brakes are used a lot thus causing old crappy rubber lines to expand. I immediately noticed a difference when switching to braided lines on my auto x car. But if you are not using super blue, put that in first or just man up, install ss lines, and change fluid. Hell, you are doing everything else to that car. 
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:04 AM   #7
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Bogan, are you having any issues with brake fade or were you jsut trying to find any truth in his words?

turbo00 and marks9-3 summed it up nicely, i dont think he really ment true brake fade. just that you get a squishier peddle and have to push it further when those rubber lines heat up or ware out. make sure your heat sheild for your brakes is still there and not rusted and broke off. that will cause more ware on all the parts in that aere.

Also, brake fluid flush is something most people neglect. any soft peddle issues and i would start there, then repalce the rubber lines or upgrade to ss lines.

For brake fade issues, economy pads and rotors are usually to blame unless your auto-x or just pushing your car hard. good ceramic pads and big meaty rotors usually solve that problem.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #8
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My brakes are generally only good for one push, Then they turn to marshmallows.
I have all new fluid in the lines, but everything is completely stock.

He also said the braided Vectra lines fit our cars. Anybody done that?

Were is the best place to get new lines from.

I think it is about time I done something to my brakes. they are good for "normal" driving but I'm really starting to notice how bad they are when I drive like an arsehole
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:35 AM   #9
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Lots of good info at this website.

Essex - Learning Center - How to Choose the Best Street and Track Brake Pads


I will also add my experience with my current setup. I have a SE with viggen front brake rotors, hawk HPS pads, and full stainless lines. I only change my fluid once a year with Valvoline dot 4. I don't do track days, just aggressive street driving.

Going to the hawk pads my initial bite felt less but as heat built up braking ability increased, and remained consistent. But the brakes didn't feel that much more impressive then when all stock, better but not great. The pads are low dust, have no noise, and decent if you don't push them to the limit of their heat range.

I have a off ramp on my daily commute thats down a hill to a stop light. If i take this ramp at over 100mph and try to brake as late as possible to make the light, scrubbing my speed down 30 mph, the brakes loose their bite. Resulting in pushing the pedal with more force, until you hit abs. Not the most confidence inspiring feeling. Now the pedal always feels firm, just no bite, from my understanding this is due to the brake pad gassing.

Ive run hawk hp pads on my rx7, which i really liked, but the hps seems to be to much of a street pad for me. I personally am going to try the ferodo ds2500 brake pads, upgrade to the aero rear brake calipers, and rotors.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:53 AM   #10
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Yea, different lines do nothing for fade, I would say 100% brake pedal feel especially if only one stop. If they are fading that quick then you have another issue. Faulty master cyl or faulty calipers.......

The braided lines simply improve feel due to less line flex, if its needed I dunno...... Especially for a street car. I added them 20 years ago to my old SPG and added them to my viggen a few years ago when I went with ap racing brakes on my viggen.

Not a clue on vectra lines.... It is the same chassis so its a possibility... The vectra never arrived here in the states
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:08 AM   #11
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Thanks guys,

I'll get some braided lines on there asap, and see what happens.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:32 AM   #12
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Any tips on the caliper bleeding screws? Mine are a bit rusty and I'm concerned they would snap off if I tired to open them.....
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:36 AM   #13
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Give them a spray with WD-40 or similar.

And give them a firm crack with a good spanner.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:49 AM   #14
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While on this topic, how much fluid does one need to flush all the lines/fill with a new type of fluid?
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:52 PM   #15
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Give them a spray with WD-40 or similar.

And give them a firm crack with a good spanner.
PB Blast is better... and apply it for a few days in a row if you're really concerned that they will snap.

I like a 6 pt socket to break free, then an open end while bleeding. Consider replacing the bleeders if they are in rough shape so that they break free again next time you do the job.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #16
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While on this topic, how much fluid does one need to flush all the lines/fill with a new type of fluid?
Get two bottles of fluid.

It will take like 1 and a 1/2.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:23 AM   #17
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Get two bottles of fluid.

It will take like 1 and a 1/2.
Sweet. Just ordered the stainless lines and the adapter lines for the 300mm rear upgrade.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:45 AM   #18
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Sweet. Just ordered the stainless lines and the adapter lines for the 300mm rear upgrade.
Start soaking the rear rubber line connections with PB blaster at the axle and body. They are a bitch.

Worth having flare wrenches to do the body mounted connections.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:16 AM   #19
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Good flare wrenchs are something that you probably won't use much but are worth spending money on. It will save you from headaches while doing the job, craftsman pro a pretty good but don't bother with the regular craftsman flare wrenches. Make sure when you put it on the fitting that it is right size and doesn't wiggle.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srp View Post
Start soaking the rear rubber line connections with PB blaster at the axle and body. They are a bitch.

Worth having flare wrenches to do the body mounted connections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VWSAABVT View Post
Good flare wrenchs are something that you probably won't use much but are worth spending money on. It will save you from headaches while doing the job, craftsman pro a pretty good but don't bother with the regular craftsman flare wrenches. Make sure when you put it on the fitting that it is right size and doesn't wiggle.
Noted!
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