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Old 09-21-2008, 07:53 AM   #1
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Anyone with balance chain delete experience

I am seriously considering getting the balance chain delete plate and removing the chain/tensioners. I also had planned on getting the Polyurethane Upper motor mounts.

After thinking about this for a while, I became worried that The car might shake more than I would like. I have driven hondas and toyotas with polyurethane mounts before and the vibrations (which only occured at idle) didnt really bother me.

SOMEONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE BOTH THE BALANCE CHAIN DELETE AND POLY MOUNTS:

How much does the car vibrate at idle? In motion?

I dont mind a bit of vibration, but I am worried that If I do both things (mounts and balance chain delete) that it would be really bad.

Only answer if you have had actual experience with both of these things. I want to keep it to facts, not everyone's opinions and theories about what will/wont happen.

Thanks.
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:09 AM   #2
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ive done just about every possible combo in the past. ive run a mix of poly/stock upper mounts (poly front/stock rear and poly rear/stock front), ive run two versions of poly gearbox bushes, one solid, and one drilled to see if it decrease vibration, along with one of my motors having no balance chain.

when running both upper mounts as poly the vibration was the worst, the side mirrors would shake with the a/c on if sitting still.

once the poly trans mount was added this got ever so slightly less, dont ask me why, but it definetly did.

the balance chain delete, i only ran when i had a poly trans mount and half upper poly setup (the car just had parts thrown on that i had laying around). the low end revs definetly moved faster and a little nicer imho. i liked it and i would do it again, but only if i had the motor out. and if you remove the timing cover make sure you replace the front main seal, to this day im almost positive thats what was causing my oil leak.

if your in a time crunch like i was and cant wait for the block off just do this.


although i can in no way remember what size bolt it was...i have a funny feeling it was M6 by whatever tap i had around.

im still pissed i sold that car, the viggen wasnt worth it.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:06 PM   #3
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Thanks, good info.

I will probably be going with poly upper mounts, and no balance chain, I guess if it gets too bad I will switch back to stock mounts.

Nice trick with the bolt, but I have some time, so I will be getting the block off plate.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:17 PM   #4
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i feel like your the kind of guy who wont care about the vibration. my dad didnt even mind. but if you do, all you need to so is put a stock mount in the firewall portion of the upper dogbone and it will fix it mostly.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:48 PM   #5
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Yeah, I dont really care about vibrations. I have owned some pretty rough idling cars. (hondas and toyotas with poly mounts) I just wasnt sure if it would be much worse removing the balance chain too.

Thanks!
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:33 AM   #6
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I have seen success with both (re: plate or tapped).

My car has a bolt.

My friend's car has the plate.

All comes down to preference.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:56 AM   #7
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upper poly mounts are great, they really help traction off the line,, i would advise strongly against balenceshaft removal, i did this the "right" way on my 9k and it lost all oil presure, yes i did have the tensioner blocked off, and yes the shafts were left in,, no i didnt have any oil presure.

more importantly, it doesnt gain any performance.. and its relatively cheap to get a new chain and lower sprocket,, why not just fix it right while your in there.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:03 AM   #8
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People have been removing the balance shaft w/ no ill effects for many years. I did it to my car and have no issues or low oil pressure. Upper poly monuts and poly tranny mount in addition to the balance shaft delete do make a bit more vibration but not much at all. I have a 1995 Aero.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:12 PM   #9
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What is the point of doing this? Just curious.....
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by VI009DZ View Post
What is the point of doing this? Just curious.....


removal of the balance shafts accomplishes a few things:

1- it lowers the amount of rotational mass in the engine, therefore the engine isn't putting power into spinning the balance shafts.

2- lower rotational mass within the engine = minimal increase of power to the flywheel, while also increasing the quickness of the revving

3- the chain that drives the balance shafts has a tendency to break (more so than the timing chain itself) if this were to happen, the balance shaft chain could get caught up in the Timing chain and do some nasty damage to your valves, head, etc.



my experience is in a B204 '99 9-3 with full poly mounts- vibration isn't bad, however this pretty much does not apply to a 2.3 in a 9000.
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by turbo9three View Post

3- the chain that drives the balance shafts has a tendency to break (more so than the timing chain itself) if this were to happen, the balance shaft chain could get caught up in the Timing chain and do some nasty damage to your valves, head, etc.

it spins at double the rpm's of the motor too...
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:26 AM   #12
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i would advise strongly against balenceshaft removal, i did this the "right" way on my 9k and it lost all oil presure, yes i did have the tensioner blocked off, and yes the shafts were left in,, no i didnt have any oil presure.
Did your chain break when you decided to do this?
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mike d View Post
upper poly mounts are great, they really help traction off the line,, i would advise strongly against balenceshaft removal, i did this the "right" way on my 9k and it lost all oil presure, yes i did have the tensioner blocked off, and yes the shafts were left in,, no i didnt have any oil presure.

more importantly, it doesnt gain any performance.. and its relatively cheap to get a new chain and lower sprocket,, why not just fix it right while your in there.
Something must have come lose or something was not done right or there was another reason you lost oil pressure, bad oil pump or something. I have done this on 3 saabs and the oil pressure has not dropped or changed in any way and I run an oil pressure gage.

There was a increase in performance for me, it was not huge, but felt like my car did when I first put on my large ic. It felt like a lightly lightented flywheel to me and did seem to rev faster in the lower revs.

John
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Bouquins View Post
Did your chain break when you decided to do this?
no, i did it preventively because of the well know lower sprocket failure trend on 91/92 9000 turbo motors

when i lost oil pressure, i thought the same thing,, so i did the job over again, and checked my work, put it back together (still no shafts connected) still no oil pressure,, i repeated this process 4 times total, never once getting oil psi with chain off and hole plugged via plate.

last time, i put the chain back on, and like magic i had oil pressure again
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:15 PM   #15
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That is very strange, sure you did not remove the balance chain sprocket on the bottom? If you leave that out the oil pump gears do not line up and you will have no oil pressure.

You have to leave the bottom balance chain sprocket on the crank or it will not work right. other than that, it makes no difference if the balance shafts are sitting still or rotating, there would be no other differences, one has tensioner in and one has hole plugged.

My first one I just cut the balance chain off and left everything else in the car and its running to this day with 45psi oil pressure when hot and 75psi on start. Did it about 3 years ago,

John
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:05 AM   #16
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Does anyone remember what bolt/tap would be needed for the block off? I am considering doing this instead of the plate

And would you be able to put the tensioner back on later if the hole is tapped? I probably wont, but it at some point if I want to put back to stock?
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:12 AM   #17
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Don't know the bolt size, but it shouldn't be a problem setting back to stock if you choose to go back.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:32 AM   #18
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I did this too, with poly bushings. My car vibrates a lot but I think a lot of its from the cam too.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:42 AM   #19
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Did solid motor mounts, poly dogbone mount and stock trans mount in the lemons car along with balance shaft delete. It vibrated a bit, but it was really apparent due to the car being stripped ALL the way down. I bet in my Aero it would be totally fine, and manageable.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:38 AM   #20
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Relaunching the subject!

I have been going to delete the balance chain on a 93 9000 2.3 non turbo but was referred to this thread, now I am not sure.

I have PM'ed a couple of posters in the hope of getting some more guidance and now I would like to canvas others opinions.

The car has just over 200,000 km on it.
The reason for the deletion is that the crank pulley broke so we had to get in and do some work, it already had a noisy timing chain so I have replaced that and was going to delete balance chain as a cost saving measure. I did not want to leave the old one in there as I figured it could break, and could also have been noisy.

I have blanked the oil gallery with a place under the tensioner. I have oil pressure, well the light has gone out. But I have not put all the other bits back on yet.

/R
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