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Old 02-12-2007, 11:44 PM   #1
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T25 to TD04 Conversion... The Right Way

The question has risen about converting our piddly T25 turbos over to the more ballsey TD04 turbo. Previous threads are replies full of uncertainty or something you heard from your aunts uncles cousins fishes coral rock. Time to clear the air. Let me start off by saying that I am not sure this article 100% applies to NG900 & 9-3 owners, so be warned! This applies to 1994-1998 T25 owners who want Aero power. SOL *for now* on older 9k owners.

Turbo Needed
Theres other variants of the TD04 turbo that you can use, but what I may say you need may NOT be the right part for that particular turbo. Im going with what I know for a factoid here..

TD04HL-15T 6cm2 - Found ONLY off 1994-1998 Saab 5spd Aeros (2.3 Versions)
TD04HL-15T 5cm2 - Found on B205R and B235R Aeros/Viggen


Differences in the Lines
Lets start out by the differences T25 to TD04. The oil and water lines are different. So you need to source the proper lines. You need the Water In, Water Out, Oil In, and Oil Return lines. An alternative to paying the rediculous price (~$275) of getting new ones from the dealer is to find them in a junkyard or make yourself some braided lines, but this thread says the right way.. So try finding the correct lines before resorting to the braided.

Washers/Banjo Bolts Explained
Now heres the tricky part. There are 3 different sized seals (usually copper washers, or steel ones supplied by SAAB) for the turbos. Each part of the line needs 2 washers, 1 for each side, so follow along here. The T25 uses 1 set (1 set = 2) of large washers, 4 sets of medium, and 1 set of small ones. The TD04 turbo uses 3 sets of smaller washers, and 3 sets of medium sized. The banjo bolts hold this all together in a leak-free fitment. The T25 uses 1 large banjo, 4 medium banjos, and 1 small. The TD04 uses 3 small and 3 medium. You seeing the problem here? You cannot use all the banjo bolts from the T25 junior! You need to source 2 smaller banjo bolts to replace the 1 large T25 bolt and 1 Medium bolt. The 3 banjos bolt onto the TD04 ITSELG. The T25 has 1 large 1 medium and 1 small ON the turbo itself Got it? Good!

Below are part #'s.... I think I got the right part numbers for the banjos if you so desire to buy new banjos!! Washers I wasnt so sure. Moonracer help me out here!

Parts Needed
Turbo to Manifold Gasket - 91 13 937
Exhaust Manifold Gasket - 91 66 497
Oil In Pipe TD04 - 91 70 473
Oil In Banjos Smaller Size (x2) - 91 43 967
Washers Smaller (x6) - ?? ?? ???
Oil Return Pipe TD04 - 91 76 140
Oil Return Pipe Gasket - 91 14 075
Water In Pipe TD04 - 91 37 944
Water Return Pipe TD04 - 91 45 897
Washers Medium (x6) - ?? ?? ???

Other Notes
If I can remember the oil return pipe have different torx bolt sizes to the turbo, so you cannot use the T25 torx bolt into the TD04. I went to the hardware store for these bolts, make sure you do all this OUTSIDE the car to make sure all the bolts work before installation.

You need SOFTWARE. The td04 will work fine on stock FPT/LPT ECU's but you wont get its full potential. Now would be the time to get some tranny busting software like Stage 3 SQR.

I added the necessary gaskets because your doing this the right way right? The turbo to manifold gasket/exhuast manifold gasket is like a condom, one time use only!

Turbo Removal/Installation The Guteman Way
1.) Drain Coolant and Oil (duh)
2.) Remove Passanger Side Wheel (Why Guteman?!?)
3.) Remove Fender Lining Passanger Side (Ill get to this)
4.) Remove the Radiator Fan (+1 Room)
5.) Remove the Intake and Turbo Outlet Elbow and All Vacuum Lines from Wastegate.
6.) Take your big fat 50ft (exaggeration all you gullible people) breaker bar and a 19mm socket to the belt tensioner bolt and get the belt off the A/C Compressor (WTF Gute were replacing the turbo!... yaya.. You need to remove the lining to have access to the tensioner, but you do this all from up top.. youl figure it out smart one)
7.) Unbolt the A/C Compressor and move aside (+2 ROOM)
8.) Heres the time consuming part (x10)... Bend your arms in 50 different positions and use 50 variants of extenstions and swivel socks and unbolt all the banjo bolts on the turbo and the ones on the oil pump, water pump, and the one by the thermostat up top. Remove all the lines. You will have to get under the car and get dirty to get some banjos and the oil return pipe removed.
9.) Remove the 3 13mm nuts from the downpipe to turbo and move that downpipe out of the way.
10.) Unbolt the turbo steady bracket (if you have one, under car)
11.) Lastly, Loosen and unbolt the exhaust manifold nuts (sometimes the studs come out too bc the nuts are frozen to the studs, dont panic!) and you SHOULD be able to bring the turbo (with exhaust manifold still attached) right up top with some loving and grunting.

Replace with TD04 turbo with new gasket, make sure all your bolts are there and work, and reverse installation!

Thats about it folks, hope this helps... I'll probably end up editing this post 50 times because I am forgetful.






NG900/9-3 Owners Wanting to Convert
New information for you guys specifically. I know some of you want to convert to the TD04 turbo replacing your T25, and after some research I have some confidence in what I say. I have the correct part numbers needed for your turbo lines!

Parts Needed
Turbo to Manifold Gasket - 91 13 937
Exhaust Manifold Gasket - 91 66 497
Oil In Banjos Smaller Size (x2) - 91 43 967
Washers Smaller (x6) - ?? ?? ???
Oil In Pipe TD04 - 91 79 458
Oil Return Pipe TD04 - 91 80 522
Oil Return Pipe Gasket - 91 07 582
Water In Pipe TD04 - 91 74 947
Water Out Pipe TD04 - 91 82 460
Washers Medium (x6) - ?? ?? ???

Here is a good link for the swap http://photo.platonoff.com/Auto/2005...Turbo_Upgrade/





Older B234 9k Owners Wanting to Convert
There are some obvious differences in the lines versus the newer 9k lines. One being the Oil in pipe, its much much longer and is bolted to the back of the block versus the oil filter housing. Luckily, some older 9k b234 engines had the TD04 15G turbo, so its possible to convert. Everything looks the same except where the lines are placed. So I have reason to believe you can use any TD04 HL 15T turbo or 15G, BUT you need to get the proper lines listed below. This only applies to those with the B234 engine T25 turbo wanting to convert. Sorry B202 owners, this doesnt apply here.

Parts Needed
Turbo to Manifold Gasket - 91 13 937
Exhaust Manifold Gasket - 75 18 996
Banjos Smaller Size (x2) - 91 43 967
Washers Smaller (x6) - ?? ?? ???
Oil In Pipe TD04 - 91 38 769
Oil Return Pipe TD04 - 91 68 204
Oil Return Pipe Gasket - 91 07 582
Water In Pipe TD04 - 91 38 785
Water Out Pipe TD04 - 91 37 928
Washers Medium (x6) - ?? ?? ???

Last edited by Guteman; 02-13-2007 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:21 AM   #2
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You should also note that there are a couple different flavours of the TD04.

The -15t-5cm found on the 9-3/9-5/Viggen, the -15t-6cm on the 9000 Aero (94-97) & 98 CSE (5spds only) and the -15g on the 93 Aero (5spd). As discovered when Zach posted pics of his car the lines for the 15g are somewhat different.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:50 AM   #3
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Can this swap be done on 2L 9K's in the same manner?
Are the lines in the same position on both blocks I wonder??
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newf9000 View Post
Can this swap be done on 2L 9K's in the same manner?
Are the lines in the same position on both blocks I wonder??
Don't know about the lines, but the manifold is different on the earlier (86-89) cars since they came with a T3. Those with a T25 the manifold is the same.
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Last edited by mcrowley; 02-13-2007 at 08:02 AM. Reason: fixed mistake ;)
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:51 AM   #5
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I thought 1990 9k's like newf's came with the t25?
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90SPG View Post
I thought 1990 9k's like newf's came with the t25?
I think you're right....86-89 was the older style w/the flatter headlights.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:03 AM   #7
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Yeah mine's a 1990 so it should have the T25 and it's going to have to be replaced soon.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:05 AM   #8
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Let us know how the swap goes, I might be interested in doing the same thing down the road.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:11 AM   #9
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Beware, The stock lines for the TDO4 will work with the 94-98 9000s only, on the 86-93 you will have to make or modify the oil lines.

The 86-93 has the oil feed comes out the back of the block instead of the oil filter housing.
The 86-93 oil pan with the return hole is in a different location.

As for the coolant lines, I'm not 100% sure but I believe the 90-93 are a direct replacement.

Last edited by SAABOOST; 02-13-2007 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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I'll look into the part numbers for the TD04 15G.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:32 AM   #11
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Just an FYI - the 6cm2 Aero turbo (possibly the vig turbo too, but I dont know) requires that you use the oil return (the flange part) from that turbo, you cant use one from the T25 period and as far as I know this isnt a part you can buy seperate - I havent been able to find one for sale or a part number in the EPC. KChrist and I fabricated one for my turbo prior to the swap but its kind of sloppy and leaks oil under boost. Just a word of warning.
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:01 AM   #12
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I cant stand by what I say for other turbo types, but I do know the lines are different 1900-1993 owners. SOL for now until I get more factoids.
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:16 AM   #13
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Just an FYI - the 6cm2 Aero turbo (possibly the vig turbo too, but I dont know) requires that you use the oil return (the flange part) from that turbo, you cant use one from the T25 period and as far as I know this isnt a part you can buy seperate - I havent been able to find one for sale or a part number in the EPC. KChrist and I fabricated one for my turbo prior to the swap but its kind of sloppy and leaks oil under boost. Just a word of warning.
The oil return lines are different t25 to td04... I had that listed. There is a part number for the 15T 5cm2 turbo..
It's 91 80 522.

Last edited by Guteman; 02-13-2007 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:25 PM   #14
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Not the rubver line, but the physical flange that bolts to the turbo.

Dont have the EPC in front of me but if thats the part number you are a god and Im an idiot for not being able to find it!
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:40 PM   #15
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Not the rubver line, but the physical flange that bolts to the turbo.

Dont have the EPC in front of me but if thats the part number you are a god and Im an idiot for not being able to find it!
There is a number of parts to this return line. The flange part has 1 part number (91 74 939). Then you have a hose (91 88 657). Lastly, theres another "tube" as saab calls it thats different for the TD04 (91 80 522)

You need that part for the conversion Hope that helps.
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:00 PM   #16
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Thank you sir - now I have to try and find one for sale!

Conversion is done for me and you can use your stock return hose(not flange) from the t25 as long as the center housing is clocked properly, just an FYI!
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Conversion is done for me and you can use your stock return hose(not flange) from the t25 as long as the center housing is clocked properly, just an FYI!

...on an ng. No clocking necessary on a 9000.
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Old 02-16-2007, 09:22 AM   #18
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Also if u only need a 6cm exhaust side for a tdo4 turbo u can get that off certain 9000 aeros that had a 15g turbo.....ask me how I know.
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Old 03-25-2007, 06:01 AM   #19
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Just a few notes (in bold) from someone who did this yesterday (me)

1.) Drain Coolant and Oil (duh) did not do this as the first thing....you don't lose much oil, and this way you can use the old oil that is in the car to "flush" the turbo. It is still recommended to change the fluids, but I chose to do it last after running the car, rather than first

2.) Remove Passanger Side Wheel (Why Guteman?!?) removing the AC frees up a ton of room

3.) Remove Fender Lining Passanger Side (Ill get to this) same comment as above

4.) Remove the Radiator Fan (+1 Room) did not do this at all, it probably would help for room, but the time cost of taking it off probably wouldn't have been gained back for me

5.) Remove the Intake and Turbo Outlet Elbow and All Vacuum Lines from Wastegate. this really does help, you obviously need to remove the turbo to IC tube, also having the IC to TB tube out of the way frees up enough room to remove the old turbo out of the engine bay...so that might be a good idea if you choose to leave the fan in place like I did

6.) Take your big fat 50ft (exaggeration all you gullible people) breaker bar and a 19mm socket to the belt tensioner bolt and get the belt off the A/C Compressor (WTF Gute were replacing the turbo!... yaya.. You need to remove the lining to have access to the tensioner, but you do this all from up top.. youl figure it out smart one)

7.) Unbolt the A/C Compressor and move aside (+2 ROOM) although having the AC moved does free up a ton of room, it is not necessary at all, as long as you are willing to jack up the car and unbolt many of the banjo bolts from under the car

8.) Heres the time consuming part (x10)... Bend your arms in 50 different positions and use 50 variants of extenstions and swivel socks and unbolt all the banjo bolts on the turbo and the ones on the oil pump, water pump, and the one by the thermostat up top. Remove all the lines. You will have to get under the car and get dirty to get some banjos and the oil return pipe removed. having a large selection of different ratchets, wenches, ratcheting wrenches, and stubby wrenches helps here

9.) Remove the 3 13mm nuts from the downpipe to turbo and move that downpipe out of the way. This should be done BEFORE step #8

10.) Unbolt the turbo steady bracket (if you have one, under car)

11.) Lastly, Loosen and unbolt the exhaust manifold nuts (sometimes the studs come out too bc the nuts are frozen to the studs, dont panic!) and you SHOULD be able to bring the turbo (with exhaust manifold still attached) right up top with some loving and grunting. or, just loosen the 4 nuts that hold the turbo to the exhaust manifold...this way you will not break any manifold studs!

Anyway, that's how I did it
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:40 AM   #20
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4.) Remove the Radiator Fan (+1 Room) did not do this at all, it probably would help for room, but the time cost of taking it off probably wouldn't have been gained back for me
great comments I must admit, just clarifying this one. All that needs to be done is loosen 3 little 7mm bolts (2 top 1 bottom) and unplug to 2 plugs and the fan is out. It made it alot easier for me to bring the turbo with manifold up through that area.

I like having alot of room to work with, because I'm a big boy with big hands.
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