engine noise (with video)

[Aikmanson]

So not too sure what this noise is, could use some help. It started last Sunday, was driving back from school, sounded good up to the highway, after about 80 mins on the highway I hit some heavy traffic (fuck thanksgiving) and had to stop. Once I came to the stop I heard this horrible tapping noise, I checked for any oil lights, overheating, all seemed well. I couldn't really pull over since I was in heavy traffic for about 10 miles. After a few miles the noise seemed to lessen, and eventually went away.

Hit the highway again, sounded fine. Afterwards when I got off I again heard the noise, tapping pretty hard again. After I got it to school I parked it and said fuck it.

Well went to check it out yesterday and today, here is what I got:



So the oil was low, put in my spare quart and it seems filled up now. Checked under the car and there is definitely some kind of oil leak.. passenger side by the pan. I thought it might just be lifter noise, but it does not go away after a few mins of warming up + the new oil.

Timing chain? lifters? something worse? Let me know what you think. I am at school so I am limited on tools or forms of diagnostics... Just want to limp her home the 160 miles.

[pitman]

if it was low oil shame on you. check it more often thats easy to prevent. id say from sounds of it... rod knock. but if oil is low its going somewhere so you have more than one problem.

i have a b234r with arp head studs and balance shafts deleted 16k miles and im in ny. i was asking 9 but ill take a offer for a local saab enthusist. and i have a t5 stage 3+ wizard tuned ecu for the td04hl-15t 21psi and b234r

[Aikmanson]

Originally Posted by pitman

if it was low oil shame on you. check it more often thats easy to prevent. id say from sounds of it... rod knock. but if oil is low its going somewhere so you have more than one problem.

i have a b234r with arp head studs and balance shafts deleted 16k miles and im in ny. i was asking 9 but ill take a offer for a local saab enthusist. and i have a t5 stage 3+ wizard tuned ecu for the td04hl-15t 21psi and b234r

Most likely if the engine is gone I will just part it and be out of Saabs for awhile, appreciate the offer though. As for the oil being low, certainly not my fault as I have not been driving the car, my father has. Checked it when I got home for thanksgiving, didn't drive the car once, drove it to school.

To be honest it doesn't sound loud enough to be rod knock, but won't know until I get a chance to take her apart. Sounds similar to the lifter noise my NA had for ~30k miles. I appreciate the opinion, any others are welcome.

[Area6]

i dont hear knock i hear tick when i had rod knock it was louder than that idk

[jk88]

Exhaust leak? Looks like you're missing a bolt for the exhaust manifold.

[Drew in Houston]

Sounds top-end to me.

[Aikmanson]

Originally Posted by jk88

Exhaust leak? Looks like you're missing a bolt for the exhaust manifold.

Hmm... your right, where the hell did that bolt go? Just did the studs/gasket last winter, and I know we put them all back on. Would it create a ticking sound? my guess is no.

Glad others support my theory about the rod knock, it sounds way more like a ticking sound to me than a knock. Drew, what do you think it could be in the top? Could it be my timing chain perhaps?

[Area6]

it broke this is why i invested in arp exhaust studs, its clearly not rod knock, try some oil treatment to quiet it down

[Area6]

sound like valve ticking btw

SAAB 9000 (97 CSE) Valve train Noise - YouTube

SAAB 9000 (97 CSE) Valve train Noise - YouTube

[Trollhättan Bil]

Originally Posted by Aikmanson

Glad others support my theory about the rod knock, it sounds way more like a ticking sound to me than a knock. Drew, what do you think it could be in the top? Could it be my timing chain perhaps?

Now that the oil's been run low and the vehicle's been operated for however long with it in this condition (WTF is up with the father unit and his failure in keeping up with the maintenance on your ride, what with bolts missing and oil leaking and shit?!), it's possible that the hydraulic cam follower system has managed to trap some air and requires it to be bled off, which is what is causing the 'tapping' sound in the valve cover/top end.

Pop the valve cover and pack a bunch of shop towels/paper towels into the plug area (to help lesson the mess), then loosen the black bolt on the #5 intake camshaft bearing cap 3 or 4 turns, then replace the valve cover using just one top and one bottom bolt (again, it's just to keep the amount of mess down and to make it easier to access the area if subsequent bleeds are necessary...depends on just how much air has become trapped in the oil/lubrication system).

Now disconnect the harness from the ignition control module (mounted on the left-hand/drivers' side fender) and, first making sure that the car is in neutral, crank the starter for 15 seconds, wait 30 seconds, then crank for another 15 seconds, wait another 30, and then crank for another 15 seconds.

Now pop the valve cover back off and check for signs of oil having been forced through the #5 intake camshaft bearing cap bolt.

If you see clear evidence of oil, then torque the bolt back down to 11 ft-lbs./15 Nm and pull all of the paper/shop towels and clean up whatever spillage that might have occurred.

Thoroughly clean and replace the valve cover, making sure that the gasket surface is clean and free of debris (applying a thin layer of high-temp silicone sealer to it's surface to insure an airtight seal), and torque the valve cover bolts down to 11 ft-lbs./15 Nm following the tightening sequence.

Reconnect the the ignition control module harness and start the engine and allow to idle, the noise should go away within a few minutes...If not, wash, rinse and repeat, insuring that the proper oil level is maintained between attempts to alleviate the possibility of developing any addition air pockets in the system.

Oh, and I'm not Drew but...I sometimes play stand in for various members on tech issues, lol.

[Aikmanson]

Originally Posted by Trollhättan Bil

Now that the oil's been run low and the vehicle's been operated for however long with it in this condition (WTF is up with the father unit and his failure in keeping up with the maintenance on your ride, what with bolts missing and oil leaking and shit?!), it's possible that the hydraulic cam follower system has managed to trap some air and requires it to be bled off, which is what is causing the 'tapping' sound in the valve cover/top end.

Pop the valve cover and pack a bunch of shop towels/paper towels into the plug area (to help lesson the mess), then loosen the black bolt on the #5 intake camshaft bearing cap 3 or 4 turns, then replace the valve cover using just one top and one bottom bolt (again, it's just to keep the amount of mess down and to make it easier to access the area if subsequent bleeds are necessary...depends on just how much air has become trapped in the oil/lubrication system).

Now disconnect the harness from the ignition control module (mounted on the left-hand/drivers' side fender) and, first making sure that the car is in neutral, crank the starter for 15 seconds, wait 30 seconds, then crank for another 15 seconds, wait another 30, and then crank for another 15 seconds.

Now pop the valve cover back off and check for signs of oil having been forced through the #5 intake camshaft bearing cap bolt.

If you see clear evidence of oil, then torque the bolt back down to 11 ft-lbs./15 Nm and pull all of the paper/shop towels and clean up whatever spillage that might have occurred.

Thoroughly clean and replace the valve cover, making sure that the gasket surface is clean and free of debris (applying a thin layer of high-temp silicone sealer to it's surface to insure an airtight seal), and torque the valve cover bolts down to 11 ft-lbs./15 Nm following the tightening sequence.

Reconnect the the ignition control module harness and start the engine and allow to idle, the noise should go away within a few minutes...If not, wash, rinse and repeat, insuring that the proper oil level is maintained between attempts to alleviate the possibility of developing any addition air pockets in the system.

Oh, and I'm not Drew but...I sometimes play stand in for various members on tech issues, lol.

Pretty good write up, appreciate the help man. Real question is, can I drive it home the 160 miles in its current condition? If I had a way around it, I wouldn't do it but I gotta go home for winter break in about 10 days, and I have no tools.

As for my dad's lack of maintenance, he normally does a good job with this stuff, but had been so wrapped up in working on the other Saab that shit just happens. Regardless, I wont put any of the blame on him.

Thanks for the replies.

[jk88]

Originally Posted by Aikmanson

Hmm... your right, where the hell did that bolt go? Just did the studs/gasket last winter, and I know we put them all back on. Would it create a ticking sound? my guess is no.

yes. i've had bolts there back out on both of my c900's. when the bolts come out, air can escape from between the head and the mani. mine sounded exactly like a lifter tick at idle.

i had rod knock on my 9000 Aero and this does not sound like that.

[Trollhättan Bil]

Originally Posted by Aikmanson

Pretty good write up, appreciate the help man. Real question is, can I drive it home the 160 miles in its current condition? If I had a way around it, I wouldn't do it but I gotta go home for winter break in about 10 days, and I have no tools.

As for my dad's lack of maintenance, he normally does a good job with this stuff, but had been so wrapped up in working on the other Saab that shit just happens. Regardless, I wont put any of the blame on him.

Thanks for the replies.

Don't mention it, glad to help and driving it, in it's current condition, could result in breaking shit!

BTW, in case you weren't informed already, breaking shit is common place when it comes to Saabs because they, somehow, manage to run surprisingly (deceivingly?) well right up until the point when they simply are unable to run anymore (just ask anyone here).

Word to the wise: Find a local AutoZone to rent the sockets and ratchet and hex bit drivers and torque wrench from to do the bleeding before you make the trip.

You've got about two weeks before you head back, surely you could manage to find the 30 mins - 1hr that would be required to bleed the system out?

And not meaning to belittle your pops or anything, it's just that parental units are often prone to expressing just how responsible they are and how irresponsible we/their children are that you'd be inclined to believe they'd be responsible enough not to lose any bolts/not to cause an oil leak/fail to keep the oil topped up...wouldn't you?

Honestly it sounds like someone, somewhere, did some tinkering and forgot to replace what was removed, perhaps even used one vehicle as a parts donor for the other. Not to point any fingers or anything, just pointing out the obvious.

[Area6]

Originally Posted by Trollhättan Bil

Don't mention it, glad to help and driving it, in it's current condition, could result in breaking shit!

BTW, in case you weren't informed already, breaking shit is common place when it comes to Saabs because they, somehow, manage to run surprisingly (deceivingly?) well right up until the point when they simply are unable to run anymore.

TRUTH thatisall

[Aikmanson]

Originally Posted by jk88

yes. i've had bolts there back out on both of my c900's. when the bolts come out, air can escape from between the head and the mani. mine sounded exactly like a lifter tick at idle.

i had rod knock on my 9000 Aero and this does not sound like that.

Well I will hope for an exhaust leak then. Would it make sense for it to "go away" when running higher rpms. Could be masked by my loud exhaust on the highway, but I hear no tapping when around 2500.

As for the time to fix it, not too sure on that one. My schedule is pretty packed right now, and I really just don't have the place or ability to conquer it on my own right now.

[Area6]

how far are you from nyc

[pitman]

make a new video and rev it a bit. if the knock increases i bet its bottom end. i couldnt tell for sure unless i had a stethoscope over the motor. but heres some similar vids

in these vids you can barley tell it sounds lke top end until you give it gas then it knocks hard. and lack of oil it could be bottom or top end

saab 9-5 engine knock.AVI - YouTube

Saab Aero Engine Knock - YouTube

Saab Aero Engine Knock - YouTube

also could be this

You Tube

You Tube

[Aikmanson]

It doesn't really sound like a knock, and I revved it a bit and it did not get all that louder. And it wasn't even a large lack of oil, 3/4 of a quart maybe. My NA has run way lower than that (burns oil, which actually started to burn less and less as the miles went up). But, who knows. I will take another look at her tomorrow and see what I can diagnose. Any ease way to tell if it is an exhaust leak?

[pitman]

Originally Posted by Aikmanson

It doesn't really sound like a knock, and I revved it a bit and it did not get all that louder. And it wasn't even a large lack of oil, 3/4 of a quart maybe. My NA has run way lower than that (burns oil, which actually started to burn less and less as the miles went up). But, who knows. I will take another look at her tomorrow and see what I can diagnose. Any ease way to tell if it is an exhaust leak?

a easy way is to get a feather and put it near the exhaust. rev it up and if the feather blows you gotta leak. also if the gasket has any black residue in one aera over the rest theres a leak.

[BuHuSPG]

I'll throw my hat in the ring to 2nd the exhaust leak. They can often confuse you because they sound very metallic when they leak close to the engine.

FWIW, Ford F150 are notorious for exhaust manifolds cracking, and when they are really bad, the trucks sound like they have a full set of silverware bouncing around in there, but are perfectly quiet when the leak is repaired. It's an alarming sound to hear.

People mention using a stethoscope to try to pinpoint where the sound is coming from and that is ideal. I don't have one, but you can cheat with a few feet of hose up to you ear moving around the engine trying to find the sound. Yours is loud enough that it may work.