SIM (?) unit issues? - The Saab Link Forums

Go Back   The Saab Link Forums > Saab New 9-3 03+ Forum > Car Problems? New 9-3 Only

Car Problems? New 9-3 Only If you're experiencing problems with your new 9-3 post your questions in here. CEL Code or GTFO!

SaabLink.net is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2011, 08:15 PM   #1
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
SIM (?) unit issues?

car is my dads 07 9-3 aero with about 110k miles.

issue is, he is getting intermittent warnings about steering wheel lock while driving at 75mph.

also sometimes have trouble with starting, which im pretty sure he is decribing as the car not recognizing the key.

last time it was on the tech2 looking for another issue, there was a stored fault for "short to ground" on the SIM unit.

i personally know very little about these cars, so any insight on SIM unit failures/replacement/etc?
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-20-2011, 08:02 PM   #2
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
What was the fault code?

(It's CIM [still pronounced "sim"], stands for Column Integrated Module).

Steering column lock failure warnings can be caused by faults in the key, CIM, ignition switch (ISM), steering column lock (SCL) or in the wiring between those 3 modules. You need to start with the fault that's being generated and go from there.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2011, 08:46 PM   #3
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
my bad, i have zero experience on these cars.

im only going by my dads explanation from 200 miles away. one morning the car wouldnt start, and when it did it was stumbling all over the place like a t7 car with a bad TB (best analogy i can think of). he took it over to the shop and they were looking for misfires etc, and apparently came across a stored code for fault to ground in the CIM.

any favorites of what to check first/whats easy to check in this situation drew?

he asked me to post up about and see if there was any insight. a lot of shit has starting going wrong on this car once it crossed 100k.
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 08:39 AM   #4
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
Out of the blue like that it could be lots of things - but usually the immobilization system (CIM, SCL, ISM, key) won't cause run problems like a steady or erratic misfire, you'll just get no cranking when the key is turned to 'START.'

If the only stored faults were for CIM or immobilization problems, if it were me I'd take a look at the fuel trims and misfire counts before clearing anything to see if the adaptations are off the chart. If something is funky with the air/fuel trims there could be an air leak or a fault in the ignition system (plugs, coils, and ionization control module can all cause erratic or steady misfires).

If that checks out OK, I clear the faults for the CIM, key off, and back on, see if they return immediately. If they return immediately then there's something to check, but often when the ISM's get wonky they don't throw faults or show symptoms for a few days, so he'd have to wait for it to return and see if it's the same fault being generated or a different one to narrow down what could be going on.

Impossible to say without being able to look at it, these cars are awfully complex, and for the most part every time I've encountered some kind of erratic engine misbehavior it's been a different problem every time.

With the V6 it could even be a problem with the fuel pressure sensor or fuel pump control module (variable speed computerized pressure regulation on that guy, can be tricky to diagnose those).
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 09:25 AM   #5
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewP View Post
With the V6 it could even be a problem with the fuel pressure sensor or fuel pump control module (variable speed computerized pressure regulation on that guy, can be tricky to diagnose those).
Interesting.

its worth noting that first the run symptoms basically happened once, and havent returned, show no misfire codes etc, and also the fuel pump was just replaced about 2 months ago due to a mouse nest on top of the tank and a mouse apparently eating through one of the feed lines from pump to engine (started car one day and fuel was just spilling out from above the tank).

as far as i know, the steering wheel has luckily not locked through all this so it does seem to be a true electrical issue.

im assuming there is in fact a risk of that happening tho?

thanks for the info so far.
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 10:29 AM   #6
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
Ask if the steering column lock actually lock/unlocks properly at key in/key out, if it does NOT work correctly there is a communication fault keeping the lock from working, or the lock may be going bad, but I've only ever replaced one SCL, and it threw a fault for an internal failure of the SCL itself. They seem to be very reliable. Probably 60% of the rest of the time it was the ignition switch causing issues, 40% it was the CIM.

Double check there isn't any nasty corrosion around the battery lugs, around the ground strap where it bolts to the front of the transmission case, and that no battery acid has dribbled down onto the main powertrain harness connectors directly under the battery tray. There are two great big connectors down there that cause some very strange problems if the connectors corrode inside, I think one is grey and one is black, they are like 36-pin and 42-pins.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2011, 11:27 AM   #7
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
got the car on the tech2 again today. shows two faults for the CIM but they generate the same code which i believe was b1440.

our mechanic is willing to bet money that it is the ignition switch. apparently they have seen it a bunch, and its as simple as cleaning the contacts of the connector. he said up until about last may the ignition switches were on back order, so what they wound up doing was getting their hands on one or two new ones, and when a customer comes in with a bad one they swap in a "refurbed"/cleaned one, clean the one that comes out and stick it on the shelf for the next guy.

that being said, they handed me a switch and said to swap it out and just bring back the old one, no charge.

now i just need to figure out how to disassemble the damn dash for my dad. anybody have the wis instructions or anything? i hate taking apart interiors blindly.
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-25-2011, 03:39 PM   #8
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
You got lucky - there are actually 5 different CIM-B1440 fault codes, thay all have to do with inconsistent signal going into CIM from ISM (Ignition Switch Module):

B1440-00 - "+B from ISM open circuit"
B1440-0F - "+15 from ISM open circuit"
B1440-57 - "Invalid key position"
B1440-58 - "Invalid key position"
B1440-71 - "Invalid key position"

Unless there is an obviously corroded wire in the ISM connector replaicing the ignition switch should be the fix.


******************************

I never had luck trying to clean the old switches and re-using them, they go bad inside, the sliding contacts just aren't very rugged. Sometimes the chip reader gets spotty and they just don't read the key correctly.

Get a new one when you can.

******************************

BEFORE DOING ANY ELECTRICAL WORK:

I roll down all 4 windows, unlock all the doors, remove key and let the car sit for a few minutes. Then disconnect the battery, and short the two cables to each other to discharge the whole system. Make sure the cable can't slide back over and touch one of the poles of the battery. Now it's safe to unplug any of the computers.



Until I had done a few I thought the ISM was a pain to change, but now I can usually do it in 20 minutes or so. The ISM snaps into the center console from underneath, you don't actually have to completely remove the center console to manipulate it out

-Remove ashtray (pull straight outward, it snaps out, catch is on the left hand side)
-Remove rubber mat under astray
-Pry faux-wood shifter trim panel up at the back (closest to ISM), pull upwards and remove
-Remove rubber mat at 'floor' or center console storage compartment
-Remove snap cover under handbrake handle
-Remove snap cover/card holder on opposite side of console
-Remove rear trim panel, under rear seat vents - snaps in, pull towards back of car
-Remove 1 torx screw under wood shifter trim, tilt shifter trim upwards, slide black plastic 'fork' retainer towards back of car to leave shifer trim panel loose
-Remove 1 torx screw on each side of front driver and passenger side cover panels (usually concealed under plastic snap covers, move front seats all the way back to get to them), remove side cover panels, slide towards front of car
-Remove the rear side covers (next to the seatback pivots for the front seats, there's just a snap catch towards the back. Pull the back edges towards the outside of the car, and slide the covers towards the back of the car.

-Remove 2 screws from under ashtray, 1 screw each side under hand brake/cover panel, 2 screws from floor of center console storage basket.

-Center console should lift up at the rear, and slide towards back of car to disengage tabs at front under ACC.

IF AUTOMATIC AND YOU NEED TO MOVE THE SHIFTER BACK TO RELEASE THE CONSOLE: There is shifter release latch at the front of the shift lever, it's yellow - push it downwards while pulling back on the shifter.

-ISM can be un-snapped by carefully pushing inwards on the 4 spring clips that hold it into the center console, one electrical connector on bottom, passenger side. It has a little latch slip on the bottom, then slides out the bottom. I use a small screwdriver, and gently push down on the switch from the top, you will feel it come loose.

Remove switch, snap in new switch, plug connector in. You'll have to slide it out, if you get it stuck in there just remove the whole center console so you don't break anything. There's two electrical connectors on the driver's side sort of right under the shifter to disconnect the center console harness.


**************

Slide center console towards front of car with corners pushed down so they 'catch' under the front center stack rails. Tilt the console down at the rear - there are two aligning pins by the seatbelt receivers, and two at the back where the ashtray on a C900 would be - make sure they all line up with their holes and it sits flat.

Put the two rear side covers on, slide them up into the center console storage box and get the rear snap clips lined up with their catches.

Put the 2 front, 2 center, 2 rear screws back in. Console should be locked down.

Put the front side covers and their screws in, then snap the rear U-shaped cover back on.

Put the shift trim U-collar back on, it slides straight forward and catches the shift slider on the top, and notches into the front of the center console at the front, then put in the center retaining screw at the rear of the locking collar.

Snap wood shifter trim back on.

Put trims under handbrake and on opposite side, put rubber mats back under ashtray and center console storage compartment.

Snap ashtray back in.

Close all the doors, and re-connect the battery.

Put key into the ignition once - nothing should happen.

Remove key, and re-insert, SCL should now unlock and you should be able to key everything on, and engine should start.

If your replacement ISM is bad, you may have same symptoms as before, SCL doesn't lock & unlock, or key won't turn, in which case you'll need to track down a new one.



ISM is the same for any year, any engine 9-3SS.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2011, 10:18 AM   #9
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
thanks, didnt even notice this post. put in the new ISM that weekend, report is that the column lock message has not occurred since but about 4 days after replacement it did the same take 3 tries to start. i need to clarify it was cranking and not starting or turning the key did nothing.

sounds like the ISM was only partially the problem.
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2011, 10:34 AM   #10
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
Weak/iffy battery will cause lots of weirdness too, as will battery lugs that are not nice and tight.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2011, 10:45 AM   #11
Elder
 
saabkid37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A big city with bright lights
Posts: 8,796
Yeah that's next on my list to check when I'm home for Xmas.

If it was still a key/cim/ism issue the car should not even crank tho, correct?
__________________
Quote:
The tragedy of idiot-proofing: Mother nature responds to every product improvement by introducing a higher performance idiot.
http://rxracing.blogspot.com/
saabkid37 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-05-2011, 11:07 AM   #12
Elder
 
DrewP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabkid37 View Post
If it was still a key/cim/ism issue the car should not even crank tho, correct?
Not necessarily - I've dealt with easily 25 instances of something wrong in the immo/start authorization system with probably 20 different symptoms. There aren't common failure modes for all those things, there are just LOTS of different failure modes.
__________________
(Former) Saab Tech / Competition Prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike saunders View Post
You still don't understand. This is like trying to explain calculus to a clam.
DrewP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Saab Link Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content is copyright The Saab Link and it's original authors.



Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.