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LB Viggen Convertible Build

5K views 68 replies 7 participants last post by  rl0089 
#1 ·
Well, I have been on the forums here and there over the past 4 years after building my vert in 2013/14 and after some extended periods of sitting I finally got it situated in a garage after we bought our house.



However, it's been giving me trouble over the past couple of months as I got it out of its latest hibernation. First was the radiator blowing up at the inspection station, then the alternator going shortly after and now this:



So I'm looking at least at a new head gasket, probably new rings and a hone depending on how bad it looks. It did seem to be seized when I tried to start it and it wouldn't crank. Before I tear into it any advice with sitting coolant in the cylinder?
 
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#2 ·
Is the piston up or down? I'd stick a chopstick or something in there and see where the piston is, then use a syringe with a hose on the end and try to suck it out. Then try to slowly turn it by hand with the plugs out. It might actually be hydro locking a little.

Probably it doesn't matter too much if you're going to be pulling it all apart.

My '03 Aero started losing coolant over night into one of the cylinders, but only if the piston was down. I didn't do anything immediately and when I did tear it apart for a head gasket there wasn't any damage.

I knew it never overheated so I just cleaned up both surfaces real carefully with acetone and multiple fresh straight razors, used Halomar gasket dressing on the head gasket, and put it back together. That was like 30-40k miles ago, no problems.
 
#3 ·
I believe it's up but I have to check, hard to tell with all of that coolant. I'm going to try attaching a narrow straw to a shop vac to get it out and then wd-40 and drip some oil down in there to sit and soak. I'm afraid to try to break it loose and cause more damage but I don't have much to lose at this point.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I guess worst case you'll gouge the cylinder wall beyond a hone; it has to come loose no matter what you do. How many miles are on it? Going the first oversize is definitely more expensive when you throw in the machining costs, but then it'll be right, so that's not a too bad worst case.

If you go that route, $519.00 gets you a nice set of new forged pistons, wrist pins, and rings from GenuineSaab. https://genuinesaab.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=56_73&products_id=518

What is that car anyway? Is it a real LB Viggen, 1999 or 2000? I know some LB 5-doors sneaked out in 2000, but I didn't know there were any LB 'verts.
 
#5 ·
It actually already has forged piston and arp head studs so I'm really surprised it's come to this. I mean this was my first project car and my first motor build, lasted about 25k, but over 4 years it sat dormant for over 6 months about 3 times. It has never overheated as far as I can tell but we'll see when it's apart.

It's a true LB Viggen vert, produced in 2000. One of 47 I believe. I've been through this before, I'll get to take my time since it's in my garage and not my parents. Either I'll go the rebuild route again or I'll find a decently priced 06+ B235R to throw in.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the tip on the Hylomar, I want to say I saw someone suggest it when I was searching for coolant leaks through the forums. I actually forgot that this block was o-ringed at the top of each cylinder as well, so I may be looking at a warped headed combined with the fact that the leak seems pronounced and it only has about 25k on the build. Unfortunately when this issue cropped up the car was in my father's possession and 7 hrs away. He drove it up, periodically filling it with coolant on the way up. That trip may have done it in.

I purchased this motor from someone here on TSL and it had been built before, kind of a package deal with the JE pistons and T5 cams in the head. I forgot who but it was a part out out of NH. It's already been milled twice from what I can tell and the compression was pretty high right after my build, like 220 psi or around there. I may just be better off getting a new head, or if the scoring is bad enough, a new motor.
 
#9 · (Edited)
That's a pretty car in blue. Even after all these years I still like how Viggens look.

What percentage coolant were you running--and was refilled with during the drive? If it was high enough, maybe you don't actually have corrosion and things might just be a little sticky where the water cooked off and left behind the nonvolatiles(?). I guess that's the optimists version.

Hmm, actually, this is a really a long shot, but if you get the head off and there's no surface rust on cylinder wall, what are the rings made from? If they're more resistant to corrosion than the cylinder wall, they may just be gummed up a little and you might be able to pop a T5 gasket on there and go, assuming it wasn't overheated and the head is straight. I don't have any experience with o-ringing these though and what impact that has on the sealing.
 
#10 ·
I can only hope it goes that well and I just need to free some things up and replace the gasket. As much as I love the car and adore the interior it drives me crazy at the same time not having an easy replacement for the blue leather. I have an old set of 99 LB 3 door rear seats I'm hoping to use the good blue from to make new front seat covers.
 
#11 ·
Just vacuumed the coolant out and filled up cylinders 1 and 3 with about 1/2 inch to an inch of wd-40. I'll let that sit for a day or too and then dry that up and soak the cylinder tops in oil. We'll see if that frees anything up before I can tear it down.



I had the overflow tank over pressurize the day before I found the coolant in the cylinders.



A straw and electrical tape to the rescue!

 
#12 ·
Thankfully as John had mentioned it wouldn't crank because the piston couldn't compress the coolant sitting on top, so nothing is seized. I'll be doing a head gasket and valve cover seal and look in to that T5 head gasket. Trionic, anything to look for when ordering the T5 one?
 
#18 ·
Been taking a break from the Viggen to help my brother with his 2005 Malibu Maxx. He had driven it from DC to western NY and mentioned that he had no AC. When I asked him how long he's been without it he said a few months. Man was I surprised to see the compressor pulley fully locked up and the belt running right over it! He said no noise and no change in mpg.

 
#22 ·
Wow yeah that's totally clean under there.

On the 19T, you will definitely have issues with a stock tune and stock injectors, etc. Do you have an AFR setup on there? I'd get that quickly. I'd strap the wastegate open or maybe loop the compressor outlet straight to the wastegate and run low baseboost until you can get things properly tuned. The danger is that you'll run lean
 
#23 · (Edited)
No AFR set up, I'd have to get a bung welded on to my downpipe, correct? If I do get the tune I have adjusted for a 19t, what injectors do people normally run and do I need a different fpr? Fuel pump is next on my list after this head gasket since I'm pretty sure it's the original one at 14X,XXX miles. I may spring for the aeromotive pump and housing from Swede Fleet (?) or something like that. They advertise on Saabcentral.

EDIT: Does anyone know the spec for the ARP exhaust manifold kit? Or what the best source is for them? Would it be cheaper to go straight from ARP?
 
#24 ·
Correct on the bung.

Making larger injectors run right is probably the most difficult thing to do well, so I think if you're going to purchase a 'tune', you should buy the tune first and then get the injectors that it's designed to run. You'll want to upgrade the fuel pump too for sure.

If you're not wanting to go through the learning curve to do it yourself, I'd talk with Nick at Genuine Saab or Mike-D. There are a lot of options out there, but those two guys understand the fundamentals and aren't just copying the freely provided work of others and turning things up.

When you go to larger injectors, it gets hard to make things run clean and smooth in the low load areas, maintain driveability, and keep wear low by not washing your cylinder walls down with overfuleling--and make safe power at the same time.
 
#27 ·
I'm blanking for some reason, I have everything set to remove the head. I still have the timing sprockets on the cams, do I need to remove the cams/sprockets together before I lift the head to avoid valve damage? Or am I good just popping the sprockets off attached to the chain in place and lifting the head with the cams still bolted down?
 
#28 ·
Or am I good just popping the sprockets off attached to the chain in place and lifting the head with the cams still bolted down?
That. You don't have to pull the cams, *just pull the sprockets out totally. I think in the past I tried slipping the sprockets zip tied to the chain through the slot in the head and it didn't go so well. Setting the timing on these cars isn't too bad

*there's supposed to be a guard that keeps the timing chain on the crankshaft sprocket, if that's there you really can't mess it up letting the chain just go slack and drop down through the slot in the head as far as possible
 
#29 ·
Oh, and what you wrote regarding tuning I think is right, if you're working with MPS going to them first isn't a bad idea.

It is possible to make bigger injectors behave well (to a point), so you can still run normal oil change intervals and your MPG's are still good, but it's not easy. The easiest way to maintain driveablity with larger injectors is to use too much fuel to make things smooth.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Huh, that's new to me. You did say the head was machined twice. It seemed like you were considering it already, but those T5 gaskets are thicker and might let you get away with running like that. I wonder if maybe that interference caused the premature leaking? That's like zero squish area which I think isn't so great.
 
#32 ·
Yeah I've already decided to just run this thing out until I can build one of the newer 06+ B235Rs to my liking so it'll be going back together with a T5 gasket.

I would put most of the blame on that for the leak. It's not like I'm pushing crazy power out of this thing.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Yeah, I think that head was machined too aggressively. I just did some quick searching to refresh my memory on squish area and for sure that's bad. Whoever sold you that engine should give you some money back lol.

Who knows though, with a T5 gasket on there it might run forever and be a great engine and you may not have to worry about another engine. If everything else is good I wouldn't bet against it.

If you know it didn't overheat for sure when your dad was running it I'd just clean it up and put it back together after cleaning it up really good. I've had success going slowly with 4-8 fresh sharp razor blades with brake cleaner and finishing with acetone and micro fiber or cheese cloth on the head and block (being careful not to gouge with the edges of the blades), and then using a thin coat of Hylomar on both sides of the gasket.
 
#34 ·
I'm 99% positive it didn't overheat since he said he refilled the coolant often on the way up.

I decided to look for as many different head gaskets I can find for the T5 block and getting a caliper and measuring them for thickness.

So far I found:

Elring
Fel-Pro
Apex (Rock Auto)
Mahle/Victor Reinz

Anyone have experience with the different manufacturers or any other manufacturers? Also, are any of these identical under a different name? Most of the pictures looked different.
 
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